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Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

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Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#141

Post by LinXitoW »

debacle wrote: post #107
matt_daemon wrote: post #2

For anyone interested in the numbers behind how bad beef and deforestation are for the environment, see Hannah Ritchie’s great new book Not the End of the World .

As a counter point, livestock are a critical part of the regenerative ag movement. Our property was farmland for 150 years before it basically ran out of nutrients in the 1970s. After one year of a pretty good harvest (not great) in 2019, we couldn't grow anything. One home testing kit later, and we found that there were virtually no minerals in the soil. Fast forward five years and between heavy composting and gener…

Rgenerative AG is BS. For example, they'll talk about how they sequester CO2, but fail to mention that after 10 years, the ground reaches a limit, from which point forward it produces far more CO2 than our current meat production.

They'll also ignore any imports into the system from conventional sources. SO, they'll feed conventionally grown feed, but not include that in their numbers.

In the end, even if regenerative farming was any good, the amount of meat we could afford to produce (aka without using too much land, water or other resources) is so tiny that 90% of our food would end up being vegan anyway.

Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#142

Post by toolz »

notesinthefield wrote: post #123
merpnderp wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep seeing people make this claim that cattle spend their entire lives on feed lots, but I've never seen this anywhere and I've been all over cattle country. Where do they do this? Because around here feedlots are only for finishing cattle and typically only spend about 2-3 months there after having very happy lives as calves on a ranch.

[flagged]

There is no hypocrisy in cattle farming. No species on earth other than humans care about another species existence other than how it will benefit their own species.

I'm not saying humans shouldn't be different, but there is no hypocrisy in keeping in line with every other species in the known universe.

Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#143

Post by jeffbee »

lukas099 wrote: post #90
virtue3 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A large amount of beef is grown in areas that are not suitable for crop farming in the United States. In fact, 85% of the land used to graze cattle in the U.S. is marginal land, which means it's not suitable for growing crops. Marginal land is either untouched or used for grazing livestock, mostly cattle" Grain finishing is another matter. But it's not a 1 grain : 1/10th beef type situation. Now chopping and burning…

“Not suitable for crop farming” =/= “ecologically unimportant”

Seriously, the is a big problem in the US. Cattle are grazed on BLM land and they trample all the stream banks to such an extent that riparian ecosystems are totally destroyed. And in exchange the grazing fee is only $1/head/month! If you stand at the point where a stream crosses from a fenced conservation area into a grazing area, the difference across the boundary is stark.

Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#144

Post by vlovich123 »

toolz wrote: post #138
rmbyrro wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow, one year in jail just for trespassing or taking a photo and doing absolutely no damage. I wonder how much it costs to buy a legislature house. Can't we crowfund buying it to make "modern" farming illegal?

I personally empathize more with the concerns of poor humans than I do mistreated animals and increasing food costs seems likely to increase their pain. I'll gladly wait for technology to improve the lives of animals, but I think it's important our legislation focuses entirely on improving the life of people, exclusively.

Enforcing ignorance is the answer?

> but I think it's important our legislation focuses entirely on improving the life of people, exclusively

What about the activists who are motivated by a genuine belief that this is wrong and believe it's their life's work to raise awareness of the issue? Throwing them in jail isn't improving their lives - what framework are you using to pick losers & winners of the people you help vs hurt?

Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#146

Post by swayvil »

jareklupinski wrote: post #126
swayvil wrote: post #106

[flagged]

> You are locked in a cell with a kitten. You must punch the kitten in the face every day or else you will not be fed. in my head, i already died the moment i became locked in a cell everything I do after that just determines where i'm going next i guess dont hang around people who have the habit of keeping jail cells and kittens around?

You people are failing to grasp my metaphor.

Replace it with "the only way to feed my kids is by performing evil deeds, like trafficking in illicit beef".

What do you do when you are stuck in a game like that? You aren't exactly evil, but what are you?

What other games like this are there?

Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#148

Post by LinXitoW »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #62
emptysongglass wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing wrong with eating meat and breeding cattle. You're not doing a whole lot to explain why there is nothing wrong with eating meat and breeding cattle. I can think of a whole host of reasons why it is wrong in matters of ethics and mercy. Who is there to advocate for the cow? We know cows feel a gamut of emotions just as we do. They are not insensate. Most humans, when given a knife or a captive bolt…

There is nothing wrong or unethical with eating meat. It is a natural behaviour, which we are evolved for, and in fact a necessary animal behaviour within the environment at large. If you do not wish to eat meat for personal reasons you are free to do so of course but I object to the current trend of minority groups trying to impose their views to the whole of society and to paint those who disagree as 'wrong'.

[flagged]

Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#149

Post by jareklupinski »

swayvil wrote: post #146
jareklupinski wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are locked in a cell with a kitten. You must punch the kitten in the face every day or else you will not be fed. in my head, i already died the moment i became locked in a cell everything I do after that just determines where i'm going next i guess dont hang around people who have the habit of keeping jail cells and kittens around?

You people are failing to grasp my metaphor. Replace it with "the only way to feed my kids is by performing evil deeds, like trafficking in illicit beef". What do you do when you are stuck in a game like that? You aren't exactly evil, but what are you? What other games like this are there?

> when you are stuck in a game like that

"we" people just aren't in the habit (or have overcome our desire) of getting stuck in evil games: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-win_situation

> "the only winning move is not to play"

as long as the sun isn't terribly angry at its energy being used to help my heart beat, there should be a path to converting its energy into what i need in 2024

Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#150

Post by LinXitoW »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #51
jdietrich wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think there are too many people, remember that you are people.

Why is it always impossible to have an adult discussion on this issue? (An interesting question for academics, I think) Obviously we are all people. The question is do we keep chasing an ever increasing population or do we accept that it cannot keep growing and should in fact probably decrease? Most developed countries have birth rates below replacement rate so this is already happening. We need to accept it and adap…

WE should keep the history of the world in mind. How things shake out when people say "there's too many people". Who gets killed first? Who gets involuntarily sterilized?

WE should consider that in the equation of "overpopulation", the other variable, "resource consumption", is far easier and more ethical to reduce.

The issue, of course, is that option 1 hurts others that aren't us, while option 2 will require changes from US, like not eating meat, reducing personal cars, reducing consumption and infinite growth in general.

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