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Take a look at Traefik, even if you don't use containers

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Re: Take a look at Traefik, even if you don't use containers

#141

Post by scrubs »

sph wrote: post #52

Traefik is pretty cool, but suffers from the same, terrible problem of Ansible: there is a lot of documentation, and a lot of words written, yet you can never find anything you need. I have used it since v1 and I routinely get lost in their docs, and get immensely frustrated. I have been using Caddy for smaller projects simply because its documentation is not as terrible (though not great by any stretch) Technical wr…

Oh man are you on to something!!! One huge, bad side effect of web is the atomization of an overall body of work into 62.9 million links.

One pdf please. The book concept works!

You know who's docs blow too? Mellanox. I hate their stuff.

And to give credit where due: intel does a damn good job.

Re: Take a look at Traefik, even if you don't use containers

#142

Post by jackthejacky »

plantain wrote: post #66
sph wrote: post #52

Traefik is pretty cool, but suffers from the same, terrible problem of Ansible: there is a lot of documentation, and a lot of words written, yet you can never find anything you need. I have used it since v1 and I routinely get lost in their docs, and get immensely frustrated. I have been using Caddy for smaller projects simply because its documentation is not as terrible (though not great by any stretch) Technical wr…

My latest gripe in this category - opentelemetry. Thousands of pages. Very little about actually achieving basic common workflows.

Oh man, I FEEL this comment. That was one absurdly awful set of documentation, because they not just have a lot of confusingly placed repeat content, they also follow the philosophy of only explaining top level initial conceptual primer for everything, and only explaining the actual main use case of the component 3 navigation pages deep.

So a beginner has to jump a BUNCH of pages to get a primer, and an expert has to bookmark the couple actually-useful pages and later give up and just look at github for specific operators/processors when they already know the basic config inside out.

Re: Take a look at Traefik, even if you don't use containers

#143

Post by hinkley »

jackthejacky wrote: post #142
plantain wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My latest gripe in this category - opentelemetry. Thousands of pages. Very little about actually achieving basic common workflows.

Oh man, I FEEL this comment. That was one absurdly awful set of documentation, because they not just have a lot of confusingly placed repeat content, they also follow the philosophy of only explaining top level initial conceptual primer for everything, and only explaining the actual main use case of the component 3 navigation pages deep. So a beginner has to jump a BUNCH of pages to get a primer, and an expert has to…

Several things I needed were in completely separate documents not linked together.

Re: Take a look at Traefik, even if you don't use containers

#144

Post by tormeh »

cromka wrote: post #134
jethro_tell wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the problems that the yaml interpreter class of languages, or whatever you'd call them, suffer from is the fact that yaml itself is a language and tends to be more or less undocumented in the interpreter docs. It's sort of assumed that you are going to do extremely simple tasks on very flat data structures. That doesn't tend to be the reality that most of us live in. And to really get the most out of these lan…

Isn’t it why toml is seemingly increasingly used to replace yaml in projects?

Toml is great for simple use-cases. For complex ones you have the same problem that yaml has: Templating a language with significant whitespace via text substitution is a horrible horrible idea. Somehow this sad state of affairs has become industry standard.

Re: Take a look at Traefik, even if you don't use containers

#145

Post by hooverd »

tnolet wrote: post #104
plantain wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My latest gripe in this category - opentelemetry. Thousands of pages. Very little about actually achieving basic common workflows.

Oh boy that hits home. Been deep in the OTEL world the last months and the official docs are very, very undercooked.

The best OTel docs I've seen have been from observability vendors. The CNCF needs some volunteer technical writers or something. I think a lot of those docs suffer from being written by people who know the spec inside and out.

Re: Take a look at Traefik, even if you don't use containers

#146

Post by coryrc »

freedomben wrote: post #76
throwaway984393 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that it forces users to read the docs to find the functionality. Users don't read the docs, and then they wander around the internet looking for a random blog post with a snippet for one problem, and they don't ever really learn how to use the program. Users are a bit like high school students just skimming books for an answer to fill in on a test. They need to be forced to learn.

This doesn't make a lot of sense in the context of the parents. Did you post this to the wrong parent? To accomplish what you are asking, a project needs actual good documentation. Everyone has agreed that is good. The only real disagreement here is whether Ansible docs have this, and regardless whether they do, they definitely have the example-driven docs that I think you are saying you don't think should exist, so…

The rest makes more sense if you assume parent post meant to write "read the code".

Re: Take a look at Traefik, even if you don't use containers

#147

Post by mardifoufs »

cromka wrote: post #134
jethro_tell wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the problems that the yaml interpreter class of languages, or whatever you'd call them, suffer from is the fact that yaml itself is a language and tends to be more or less undocumented in the interpreter docs. It's sort of assumed that you are going to do extremely simple tasks on very flat data structures. That doesn't tend to be the reality that most of us live in. And to really get the most out of these lan…

Isn’t it why toml is seemingly increasingly used to replace yaml in projects?

In my experience toml is worse at anything complex. It's nice as an .ini replacement but makes even yaml look sane in comparison if you want to use it for very complex or deeply nested stuff. But it wasn't designed to do that anyways

Re: Take a look at Traefik, even if you don't use containers

#148

Post by jethro_tell »

cromka wrote: post #134
jethro_tell wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the problems that the yaml interpreter class of languages, or whatever you'd call them, suffer from is the fact that yaml itself is a language and tends to be more or less undocumented in the interpreter docs. It's sort of assumed that you are going to do extremely simple tasks on very flat data structures. That doesn't tend to be the reality that most of us live in. And to really get the most out of these lan…

Isn’t it why toml is seemingly increasingly used to replace yaml in projects?

I hope not, toml is even worse at complex things and just slightly better at the stuff that isn't confusing. Add a k:v to a mildly complex dict.

At this point, I'm pushing into a place where I'm just going to switch to go because its getting to be a mess.

Re: Take a look at Traefik, even if you don't use containers

#149

Post by jethro_tell »

tormeh wrote: post #144
cromka wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t it why toml is seemingly increasingly used to replace yaml in projects?

Toml is great for simple use-cases. For complex ones you have the same problem that yaml has: Templating a language with significant whitespace via text substitution is a horrible horrible idea. Somehow this sad state of affairs has become industry standard.

Its not even the white space, a food liter or language server can handle that. It's not that, as much ad the fact that the most complex data structure is a list.

If you want to get crazy, you can push a dict into a list and operated on it but it gets tough at the second level. And don't get me started on if/else statements.

Re: Take a look at Traefik, even if you don't use containers

#150

Post by [deleted] »

jasoneckert wrote: post #51

Another thing worthy of note is that Traefik is configured by default in K3s. This has allowed K3s to be the quickest way to spin up a K8s cluster for testing, essentially allowing you to treat your cluster like cattle too. Simply add your deployment and associated service using NodePort, and you can access your app without worrying about the ingress controller. I use a shell script to spin up K3s clusters and test a…

[deleted]
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