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00Key a 75% Keyboard

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Re: 00Key a 75% Keyboard

#141

Post by qwerpy »

Arainach wrote: post #53
dyingkneepad wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a keyboard that's "missing" essential keys, but I have a special key that I can press with my thumb that changes that every single key does (it's called a Layer). So I never need to move my wrist to press the arrow keys: just hold the thumb button and press hjkl. Page up is layer+t, page down is layer+g. And so on. It's great, my wrists thank me. I can even program a macro that will trigger an OS shortcut that…

I like keyboards with layers support, but layers aren't a replacement for sufficient keys. Holding down the layer button means another finger unavailable for hotkeys. For instance, on my keyboard (ZSA Moonlander) I have the function keys in an alternate layer. This isn't a problem for a normal press (layer shift + 2 => F2), but it makes pressing something like Ctrl+Shift+F2 rather painful. Yes, for such shortcuts tha…

I have a Moonlander and regret listening to all of the enthusiast reviews about it. It feels great to type on, but the missing keys and blank keycaps for a lot of keys is slowly driving me crazy. I dabble in a lot of things but don't really code anymore for my job. So it's not worth it for me to customize my keyboard and layers for whatever IDE today that I won't use for long. And I switch from PC to Mac to Linux a lot, so the having to keep all the keyboard shortcuts straight in my head while using a minimal, somewhat unlabeled keyboard is impossible.

Re: 00Key a 75% Keyboard

#142

Post by sxldier »

lawn wrote: post #45
BossingAround wrote: post #2

Personally, I found the perfect keyboard in Ergodox [0][1]. Ortholinear, split, programmable (and open-source) keyboard with hot-swappable switches. I've had my Ergodox EZ [2] for ~7 years now. The biggest problem that happened was that some of the switches started malfunctioning - fixing which was a matter of literally 5 minutes. I don't think I would want to go back to non-split, non-ortholinear keyboards nowadays.…

The problem with Ergodox (and Moonlander) are the horrific thumb cluster that only makes sense if you have very large hands/fingers.

I also had similar concerns. Their voyager keyboard should solve that concern and I’m strongly considering using it. I’ve had their Planck EZ for maybe 2 years now (on Dvorak) and later got their Moonlander but I think it was too much for me and went back to the Planck shortly after.

Ben Vallack has a good video on the voyager[^0] and many other setups and workflows

[0]: https://youtu.be/dg2TT1OJlQs?si=vNM6fOK7ua9KCIky

Re: 00Key a 75% Keyboard

#143

Post by terribleperson »

derefr wrote: post #123
jwells89 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest issues with the touch bar, from my perspective: - It couldn’t be used without being looked at, due to it having no physical keys - It was always kind of hacky, being essentially a long thin Apple Watch (down to running a watchOS variant) that would occasionally freeze up I think it would’ve been better received had it been composed of Stream Deck-like display keys powered by macOS itself which would’ve br…

> had it been composed of Stream Deck-like display keys Mind you, a majority of the useful "things the touchbar can change into" involved non key-shaped interaction surfaces. The volume and brightness sliders; the iMovie/FCP video scrubber; the keyboard autocomplete suggestions; etc. The only way this would have worked is if arbitrary regions could have been dynamically raised/tactile-ized to match the interaction el…

The last time someone tried to make a highly-tactile touchscreen we got the BlackBerry Storm, and it was awful. I owned one and dropped it in a lake by accident. I did not miss it.

That said, a touchscreen with software-positioned raised areas would be very neat, if it existed.

Re: 00Key a 75% Keyboard

#144

Post by ssl-3 »

jwells89 wrote: post #18
mmh0000 wrote: post #4

I really do not like these compressed baby keyboards that are missing essential keys. My perfect keyboard would be something like a 150% with standard full layout but then adding in a bunch of programmable macro keys, I want more than F12! I want F1 through F36. Also a built in coffee grinder, water heater, and there should be a fan under the keys to keep my hands cool. Okay, ignore those last three.

What’s “essential” varies a lot between users. As a mobile dev I’ve been using 60% and 65% boards almost exclusively since 2015 and haven’t missed the removed keys much at all. Really though, to me the problem with full-size keyboards isn’t the number of keys but their positioning. The traditional full sized layout was designed prior to mice being common, which immediately becomes evident when you try to center the a…

One of my favorite keyboards for a very long time was made by Cirque (the inventors of the Glidepoint trackpad) and was called, as near as I can tell, simply the "Cirque Glidepint Keyboard."[0]

It was a pretty normal 101-key layout, with mechanical clicky-switches[1]. Except, in place of the inverted T arrows was a small-ish Glidepoint. The three buttons for the touch pad were near the front edge of the keyboard, on the far left -- near Ctrl and Alt.

It lived clamped into an example of one of the old-school sliding, articulated, heavy steel keyboard-holder-widgets under my desk, and I almost never saw it.

Instead, I'd be typing and using GUIs with my desk completely free of input devices and ready for every other manner of thing that desks are useful for, with my hands under my desk just above my lap. My right hand barely had to move to reach for the pointer (I even got good at using it with my pinky finker), and it felt completely natural to use my left hand for the pointer-buttons (rather than the hateful contortions required by more-modern touchpad implementations).

It was very, very quick to use in those fairly early days of useful GUIs on desktop PCs, and the lack of inverted-T arrow keys was never problematic for me at all since I grew up with a near-clone of the IBM Model F's layout -- the Chicony KB-5160.

And man, that arrangement sure was comfortable.

[0]: I cannot find a photo of of the old Glidepoint Keyboard, and I strongly suspect that very few of these were ever made. I did find a review, though: https://www.chicagotribune.com/1995/09/08/cirque-glidepoint-...

[1]: I do not know who made the switches. Sorry, mech keyboard fans.

Re: 00Key a 75% Keyboard

#145

Post by ssl-3 »

terribleperson wrote: post #143
derefr wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> had it been composed of Stream Deck-like display keys Mind you, a majority of the useful "things the touchbar can change into" involved non key-shaped interaction surfaces. The volume and brightness sliders; the iMovie/FCP video scrubber; the keyboard autocomplete suggestions; etc. The only way this would have worked is if arbitrary regions could have been dynamically raised/tactile-ized to match the interaction el…

The last time someone tried to make a highly-tactile touchscreen we got the BlackBerry Storm, and it was awful. I owned one and dropped it in a lake by accident. I did not miss it. That said, a touchscreen with software-positioned raised areas would be very neat, if it existed.

We have bendy touchscreens these days that withstand seemingly-impossible 180-degree bends, so some of the hard work may have already been done.

From 10,000 feet up, all we really need are some mechanical actuators to allow it to be segmented in a way that can be felt.

(Or. Electromagnets, and ferrofluid. Under the display.)

Re: 00Key a 75% Keyboard

#146

Post by qmkqmkqmk »

qwerpy wrote: post #141
Arainach wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like keyboards with layers support, but layers aren't a replacement for sufficient keys. Holding down the layer button means another finger unavailable for hotkeys. For instance, on my keyboard (ZSA Moonlander) I have the function keys in an alternate layer. This isn't a problem for a normal press (layer shift + 2 => F2), but it makes pressing something like Ctrl+Shift+F2 rather painful. Yes, for such shortcuts tha…

I have a Moonlander and regret listening to all of the enthusiast reviews about it. It feels great to type on, but the missing keys and blank keycaps for a lot of keys is slowly driving me crazy. I dabble in a lot of things but don't really code anymore for my job. So it's not worth it for me to customize my keyboard and layers for whatever IDE today that I won't use for long. And I switch from PC to Mac to Linux a l…

Sounds like it ain’t worth much at all. Wanna trade?

I got a dell media keyboard I bought at Goodwill. No lie it has a lot of pointless keys dating back to the dinosaurs and comes with extra skin cells. You can tap Scroll Lock until ya ded.

Re: 00Key a 75% Keyboard

#147

Post by mixmastamyk »

rgoulter wrote: post #62
mixmastamyk wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neat but no good place for arrow keys.

Typically with split keyboards like this, you'd put the arrow keys on home row (or ijkl or esdf etc.), and access the arrow keys by holding a Fn key. On a traditional keyboard, you can't access the arrow keys with your hands rested on home row. You have to move your hands to reach those keys. Holding a Fn key brings more of the keyboard's functionality to within easy reach of the hands, at the cost that the keyboard…

Good summary. I wouldn't buy one without obvious arrow keys however.

Re: 00Key a 75% Keyboard

#148

Post by lilouartz »

LanternLight83 wrote: post #126
TheCapn wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could never get used to ergonomic keyboards. I actually spend a considerable amount of my day typing single handed across the entire QWERTY so I don't have to remove my hand from the mouse. I developed the habit working on far too many apps with bad/missing keyboard shortcuts or broken tab ordering. For me I wanted a smaller keyboard, but one that still included the numpad and ended up with this custom build: https…

I get that, I've practiced with my ergo board for like a year and still don't use it exclusively bc of one-handing stuff (though learning a new layout at the same time cert. didn't help). There's a layout based on multi-key chords called Taipo that has this really interesting "reversable" property, in that each half is a mirrored copy of the other, so you can type any letter (or eg. tab or return) with either hand. I…

What's a good way to contact you?

I have a product question regarding one of the comments you've made in 2022.

I added my email to my profile if you could please email me.

Re: 00Key a 75% Keyboard

#149

Post by luke-stanley »

criddell wrote: post #138
luke-stanley wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh okay, I guess I want 65% then in terms of the keys it has! Thanks.

Those exist! I googled 65% bluetooth keyboard and this is the first result: https://www.cherryamericas.com/mx-lp-2-1-compact-wireless No idea if it's any good or not. In my experience, only Logitech seems to have figured out decent battery life in wireless keyboards. Even with the lighting effects turned off, most mechanical keyboards have terrible battery life (often less than a week). My gripe is that there are lot…

Thanks, I really want something more like a Psion keyboard but a tad smaller to fit in the dimensions I have available, there is no room for any wasted space but I want to be able to input shell commands easily and dislike the idea I'd have to fold and unfold a keyboard to have a good typing experience. I already have a poor quality rubber dome keyboard with no scissor switch mechanism so it's not like a laptop experience like on a Psion.
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