Rust being the best alternative to C++ is why I'm wildly rooting for Mojo. This language sacrifices a lot in ergonomics and UX to the alter of safety. And the Rust community never fails to interject with "Well, Akshually..." whenever you complain.
Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
141–150 of 996 posts
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#142> I'd argue as far as maintainability being the wrong value for indie games, as what we should strive for is iteration speed. That seems to be the crucial point. Rust is optimized for writing complex systems software in large teams. That’s not a great fit for a small team hacking on something that is at least in part an art project. You wouldn’t choose something like Ada for that either.
Rust is not antithetical to iteration-based programming, it just makes you write a lot of heavy boilerplate to explicitly support that kind of style. The flip side of that is once the 'iteration'/'prototyping' phase is over, you can actually refactor the prototype into high-quality production code, instead of either throwing it away altogether and rewriting it from scratch (spoiler alert: this doesn't really happen m…
Surely there's better choices if the primary desire is iteration speed, and a secondary or maybe even tertiary desire is maintainability/refactorability
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#143> Rust gamedev ecosystem lives on hype I've been saying this for years. I've tried to get into Rust multiple times the past few years and one of the things I've tried was gamedev with Rust (specifically the library ggez when it was still being worked on, and a little bit of Bevy). I admittedly never got far, but I gave it a solid shot. My experience was instantly terrible. Slow compile times and iterations, huge pack…
I'm a Rust fan (mostly for embedded firmware with minimal deps), but even after 10 years of playing with the language it's not clear to me that advanced GUI or gamedev fits well with the borrow checker. It requires a significant paradigm shift in architecture, and I'm not convinced it's worth making that shift, especially if your application can tolerate a garbage collector (which many games and most UI apps can).
https://dioxuslabs.com/blog/release-050
Seems promising, very React-esque with little boilerplate
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Seems like Rust was the wrong tool for the job. Sure, but the problem is when you have a community around that tool that insists otherwise.
Can you please give an example of that? Rust is very much advertised as a systems programming language . Can't really blame people for using it and going "oh it's harder than go and python"...
From the website:
> From startups to large corporations, from embedded devices to scalable web services, Rust is a great fit.
Are these "systems"? FWIW "systems" does not appear on the Rust home page.
From wikipedia:
> Rust is a multi-paradigm, general-purpose programming language that emphasizes performance, type safety, and concurrency.
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#145> I'd argue as far as maintainability being the wrong value for indie games, as what we should strive for is iteration speed. That seems to be the crucial point. Rust is optimized for writing complex systems software in large teams. That’s not a great fit for a small team hacking on something that is at least in part an art project. You wouldn’t choose something like Ada for that either.
I copied this exact same snippet and was going to comment the exact same thing. Why choose Rust if you don’t care about maintainability and long term stability? Those are core values of the language! The language choice was wrong from the start. C++ is king for games so if you care more about delivering features and fast prototyping why not go with that? Maybe Rust is not a good language for rapid iteration in the ga…
C++ is king for game engines, but many games opt for languages like Lua or Unreal Blueprints because C++ is to those as Rust is to C++
Personally I like Javascript
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#146> The problem you're having is only a problem because you haven't tried hard enough. You just need to read another 50,000 word fasterthanlime essay. Then you'll not have problems any more. > That being said, there is an overwhelming force in the Rust community that when anyone mentions they're having problems with Rust the language on a fundamental level, the answer is "you just don't get it yet, I promise once you g…
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Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#147That's a good article. He's right about many things. I've been writing a metaverse client in Rust for several years now. Works with Second Life and Open Simulator servers. Here's some video.[1] It's about 45,000 lines of safe Rust. Notes: * There are very few people doing serious 3D game work in Rust. There's Veloren, and my stuff, and maybe a few others. No big, popular titles. I'd expected some AAA title to be writ…
> * There are very few people doing serious 3D game work in Rust. There's Veloren, and my stuff, and maybe a few others. No big, popular titles. I'd expected some AAA title to be written in Rust by now. That hasn't happened, and it's probably not going to happen, for the reasons the author gives.
At one point the studio behind the Finals was writing game server code in Rust with an Unreal engine client. Not sure if that's true still
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#148I've been thinking of embarking on a Rust/GUI/Game. Guess, this will save some grief. Is Rust the future? Will this situation improve? I've been wanting to like Rust, but this seems to be indictment.
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#149As much as I love Rust I sometimes wonder if I'd be more productive in a simpler language. If I wrote it every day I'm not sure that would be true, but as a hobbyist coming back to Rust sometimes takes me a bit to get back in the zone. Also, still not a fan of async, as it is woefully incomplete and fairly complicated in some use cases. That said, I just can't go back to Go with nil pointers and lack of decent enums/…
> I just can't go back to Go with nil pointers and lack of decent enums/ADTs/pattern matching either. Go is simply a badly designed language where the idea of "simplicity" has been maligned and proven bad ideas likes nil/null, exceptions and such have been introduced in a seemingly modern language. One would think that decades of Java, Javascript, etc. code blowing up because of this issues would teach someone someth…
And yet it is incredibly productive. The poster that contrasted engineers with artists got it right I think. Go is an engineer’s language.
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#150I see some of those things could perhaps be solved by implementing parts of the game in a sandbox. I know that's work: I'm doing it myself. But all the work with the host-guest boundary (let's not call it bindings, please), is worth it in the end.
I have a C++ game client, a C++ game server, and a shared C++ game script that is transferred to all clients, running in a RISC-V emulator. That means the script will fundamentally execute the same way on all clients, and the server. I have no idea what everyone else is doing. This is what I'm doing now, and the more fleshed out it's becoming, the more I actually like it this way. I don't think I could easily "go back" to other solutions.