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Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

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Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#141

Post by AnthonyMouse »

mdhb wrote: post #116
AmVess wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These laws aren't about protecting America and its citizens, but rather as means to control them.

People just toss comments like this around as though they were facts when in fact it’s completely paranoid made up q-anon level nonsense. These laws work a very specific way and have very specific controls in place to prevent shit like you describe from happening which you could go and read up on if you wanted to but it’s much easier to fear monger amongst one another because it plays to your ego that somebody who is…

It's a secret court making secret law. This is, by definition, both unaccountable and impossible to conclude is not being used to cover up massive abuse, because whatever is happening is being concealed from the voters.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#142

Post by [deleted] »

hammock wrote: post #36
jedberg wrote: post #32

What's most interesting is that this wasn't on party lines. The yes/no mix is very mixed party-wise. https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1...

Agreed that’s interesting. Really makes you think about all these crackpots talking about a uniparty, deep state vs the people, etc

[deleted]

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#143

Post by [deleted] »

araes wrote: post #102

Other info: This reauthorization of FISA includes the Turner-Himes amendment introduced by Reps. Mike Turner (R-OH) and Jim Himes (D-CT). (introduced House, passed Senate) The Turner-Himes amendment expands the definition of “electronic communications service (ECS) provider” to include “any service provider” that has “access to equipment that is being or may be used to transmit or store wire or electronic communicati…

[deleted]

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#144

Post by CamperBob2 »

pas wrote: post #90
CamperBob2 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were true, Trump would have been carried out of Helsinki feet-first.

why, what was/happened in Helsinki?

Trump announced that he believed Putin over his own intelligence.

But then there was the time Biden installed Hunter on the White House staff and ordered that he be given a security clearance, despite dozens of discrepancies, undisclosed foreign contacts, and other red flags on the paperwork. Oh, wait, no, that was Trump, too.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#145

Post by AnthonyMouse »

twoodfin wrote: post #64
mise_en_place wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is requiring a warrant, which means following the Constitution. Due process doesn’t disappear because you want it to. Even if someone is supposedly a terrorist or criminal.

If you’re hoping the Supreme Court, and in particular this Supreme Court, is going to agree that the Constitution requires the executive branch get a warrant before spying on cross-border communication with a non-citizen, you’re going to be disappointed. FISA is Congress exercising the only authority it has here, which is oversight & regulation. You could argue FISA should be stricter, but it can’t extend the Constit…

> You could argue FISA should be stricter, but it can’t extend the Constitutional reach of the Fourth Amendment, nor can it contract it the way many in this thread believe it’s somehow doing.

Congress can't pass a law violating the Fourth Amendment. They can certainly pass a law constraining the executive from doing something that is otherwise constitutional, if the courts are reading the Fourth Amendment too narrowly.

They could also straightforwardly require the FISA court to publish its opinions, or have the same cases heard in ordinary federal courts with public accountability for the decisions. There is nothing in the constitution requiring secret courts.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#146

Post by superkuh »

njarboe wrote: post #12

Here is a link to how the senators voted[1]. [1] https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1... Unfortunately both my senators voted for it. I did call their offices Thursday to no avail.

It terrible it passed but I'm glad both Wisconsin senators voted no. They voted no for completely different reasons but I'll take it.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#147

Post by sapphicsnail »

Gud wrote: post #71
stanford_labrat wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in reality the two party system is not accurate. It’s rich versus poor, those with power versus those without. Nobility versus peasants. That’s just how it works.

That's how it works in the USA, not necessarily how it works. Other forms of governing exists. A big step forward for the USA would be a vast reduction of federal power over the states.

How would that help? Political parties operate in states. States are banning books and outlawing abortions too.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#148

Post by ein0p »

thejazzman wrote: post #127
ein0p wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggle to nail down my political affiliation because there’s literally just one party. They quibble over materially irrelevant hot button issues to create the illusion of choice, but all the bullshit that robs me and my kids or strips us of our rights is _always_ “bipartisan”, passed without reading in the dead of the night. And yeah the only two choices in our upcoming “elections” here are a guy with profound de…

"pro life" is a pretty hard (and exploitive) line separating the two

Keep paying attention to that while they borrow $2T a year and give it to their friends.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#149

Post by Kamq »

twoodfin wrote: post #125
Kamq wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not complicated: If you run a telegraph wire between El Paso and Juárez, the executive has the Constitutional authority to tap it to intercept communication to or from a non-citizen not in the United States, warrant-free. That's not correct at all. It would only fall under federal overview if it's commercial (Article 1 section 8 clause 3 of the constitution gives congress the right to regulate commerce with…

This is, flatly, nonsense. For example: Executive agencies conduct warrantless border searches unrelated to commerce around the clock.

It's dumb, but Wickard v. Filburn makes basically anything involving physical goods "commerce". I'm sure there's a ruling somewhere that says something like: people entering the country subtly alter the restaurant market (not really any dumber than the Wickard v. Filburn rationale), and therefore the feds have a right to search everything.

I think it would be a lot harder to do that with speech though. Maybe you could argue that the telegraph line itself impacts international copper markets or something, but there are non-tangible based communication methods.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#150

Post by tophi »

ipaddr wrote: post #57
memish wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,” Schumer told MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/312605-schumer-t...

The only person willing to take them on is Trump. Look at all of the fake cases and mainstream media attacking that followed. I don't think anyone can stop them now. When America is replaced as a world power that day will come.

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