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The forgotten war on beepers

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Re: The forgotten war on beepers

#141

Post by arp242 »

asveikau wrote: post #113
arp242 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what it is in US culture and society that makes it so hostile towards anyone and anything even vaguely suspected of a crime, but this sort of thing is shockingly common, even when dealing with children. Here's another case I encountered a few weeks ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Brown_case – there are so many things wrong with the entire thing, starting with charging an 11-year old as an adult…

> I don't know what it is in US culture and society that makes it so hostile towards anyone and anything even vaguely suspected of a crime, In a lot of cases I think it's a proxy for racism. I think there's also a tendency towards black and white thinking, where people are either good or bad, and they're very willing to bucket people as bad rather than considering shades of gray or that authorities did something wron…

In this case it's a white kid though, and a lot of the kids from "kids for cash" were white. If we look at the prison population and include just the white population (~60%), the US still incarcerates vastly more people than other comparable countries. It's not even close. While in general racism is certainly a contributing factor, I don't see it being the main factor.

I don't have the impression the other factors you mention are unique to the US; people from all types of backgrounds seem to have problems with black/white thinking. This sort of thing seems innate to the human condition.

So the question remains, what is so special about the US? I don't really have a good answer to this. "Puritanism", as another commenter offered, seems too simplistic, and the US isn't the only country with a history of that sort of thing, either. Same with "war on drugs", another popular answer. Drugs are illegal (and sometimes heavily persecuted) in many countries. Maybe it's a bit worse in the US, but it's not unique to the US.

Maybe there just isn't a good/clear reason, and it's just "how the chips fell". The Aztecs went to war for no other reason than to capture people so they could rip out their hearts for sacrifice. There have been cultures where cannibalism of slaves, even child slaves, was socially acceptable for no other reason than "it tastes good". Why were these cultures like this? Who can tell... Probably a complex interaction between various factors.

Re: The forgotten war on beepers

#142

Post by xattt »

ubermonkey wrote: post #104
munchler wrote: post #96

In the 90's, I was a project manager for a software consulting company. I carried a beeper onsite so my superiors could reach me when needed (e.g. to discuss growing the account). During a lunch meeting one day, two of my bosses at the consulting company suggested that I upgrade to a cell phone, like they had done. I said I was reluctant to do that, because I valued my independence and didn't want to be on a short le…

There were several years where having BOTH was desirable. Cell service was expensive, and battery life was short, so many folks carried a beeper that was always on, and a phone they turned on if they needed to make a call and had no land line option. I've never understood the "it's a leash" thing. Pagers and phones are MY devices, and I get to decide how I will respond to them.

> Pagers and phones are MY devices, and I get to decide how I will respond to them.

You are right. However, a ringing phone in the mid-to-late 20th century created a ton of tension and was a movie trope. People felt obligated to respond to what they assumed was a human being on the other end.

Obviously, this obligation to respond has been diluted with robodialers and mixed messaging methods.

Re: The forgotten war on beepers

#143

Post by ok123456 »

pc86 wrote: post #78
toast0 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kid's school now just confiscates until the end of the day. Even that might not be strictly legal, but it's unlikely to get challenged.

This probably has more to do with the fact that 30 years ago if you brought an electronic device into school it was probably relatively cheap and there was a decent chance your parents didn't even know about it. And either way it wasn't really a necessary part of your existence. Now it's a $1200 phone that is most likely the primary way your parents communicate with you between the time you're out of school (around 2…

I don't know about cheap, especially for a kid. A Discman could easily be their Christmas or birthday present.

Re: The forgotten war on beepers

#144

Post by vkou »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #126
vkou wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's also not forget the scares about the dangers of smoking, leaded gasoline, asbestos, licking radium paint, and drunk driving. Not all new inventions are a net benefit to society just because they are new, not all things are always good in all contexts, and 2024 is not the end of history, or of cultural evolution.

I agree. But all of your examples are 'real'. Real physical things that can impact someone materially. Chemicals, products. Lot of the 'scare' things are just 'ideas'. Should we outlaw ideas is the problem. That is basically how anti-communism works, 'communism' is an idea that the right calls a 'mind virus' that we should ban because it can infect people. Of course, super hard to tell what is freedom of speech these…

Having a television or radio blasting propaganda into your living room is real. It's an actual physical thing, it's not a concept. So is the Facebook app, and the social dynamics that prevail on it. So are screens in general.

I'm sure that the optimal amount of all those things is non-zero, but it's possible that it's also not 'all day, every day.'

It's not unreasonable for schools to restrict this, just like it's not unreasonable for a school to restrict you from bringing a mariachi band with you to class.

Re: The forgotten war on beepers

#146

Post by asveikau »

arp242 wrote: post #141
asveikau wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know what it is in US culture and society that makes it so hostile towards anyone and anything even vaguely suspected of a crime, In a lot of cases I think it's a proxy for racism. I think there's also a tendency towards black and white thinking, where people are either good or bad, and they're very willing to bucket people as bad rather than considering shades of gray or that authorities did something wron…

In this case it's a white kid though, and a lot of the kids from "kids for cash" were white. If we look at the prison population and include just the white population (~60%), the US still incarcerates vastly more people than other comparable countries. It's not even close. While in general racism is certainly a contributing factor, I don't see it being the main factor. I don't have the impression the other factors yo…

Well, I don't think the tough on crime rhetoric is totally unique to the US either. I hear them coming from other countries too. Eg. when I was paying attention to Javier Milei's presidential bid in Argentina, it's largely the same talking points about crime, could have been lifted word for word from American internet comments.

From what I understand I think northern europe in particular has more of an attitude geared toward prison being about reform of criminals, and less towards vindictive punishment.

PS: Kind of tangential, but since you did bring it up: I believe a lot of the stories about natives being cruel warriors and cannibals were invented or exaggerated by Spaniards.

Re: The forgotten war on beepers

#147

Post by buran77 »

ubermonkey wrote: post #104
munchler wrote: post #96

In the 90's, I was a project manager for a software consulting company. I carried a beeper onsite so my superiors could reach me when needed (e.g. to discuss growing the account). During a lunch meeting one day, two of my bosses at the consulting company suggested that I upgrade to a cell phone, like they had done. I said I was reluctant to do that, because I valued my independence and didn't want to be on a short le…

There were several years where having BOTH was desirable. Cell service was expensive, and battery life was short, so many folks carried a beeper that was always on, and a phone they turned on if they needed to make a call and had no land line option. I've never understood the "it's a leash" thing. Pagers and phones are MY devices, and I get to decide how I will respond to them.

> and battery life was short

In the mid-'90s and 2000s phone batteries lasted longer than they do today, assuming the regular usage of the day.

Re: The forgotten war on beepers

#148

Post by mongol »

rrr_oh_man wrote: post #119
mongol wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is funny, in a way that I feel hard to explain. Something about it being a simpler, more innocent time?

> Something about it being a simpler, more innocent time? Unfortunately, we will probably think the same about 2024 in thirty years...

Certainly. Something with AI will make this all seem like the best of times.

Re: The forgotten war on beepers

#149

Post by swores »

buran77 wrote: post #147
ubermonkey wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were several years where having BOTH was desirable. Cell service was expensive, and battery life was short, so many folks carried a beeper that was always on, and a phone they turned on if they needed to make a call and had no land line option. I've never understood the "it's a leash" thing. Pagers and phones are MY devices, and I get to decide how I will respond to them.

> and battery life was short In the mid-'90s and 2000s phone batteries lasted longer than they do today, assuming the regular usage of the day.

Pretty sure they're talking a few years earlier than mid-90s. Think brick-like phones, not phones that fit in your pockets.

Re: The forgotten war on beepers

#150

Post by OkayPhysicist »

afandian wrote: post #45

Forget the beeper. The idea of arresting a child at school for anything (short of maybe violent assault) seems to be madness.

Treating public school as public space with public rules creates a huge class divide with the private schools. Short of actively shooting up the place, I can't think of a single rule you could break at the private university I went to that could result in law enforcement getting involved. I knew of at least one kid who got caught with most of a kilogram of cocaine, who got off with little more than a slap on the wrist.

In contrast, a kid at my brother's public uni got arrested for petty vandalism. It's an extremely stark class divide.

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