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Stop Acting Like You're Famous

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Re: Stop Acting Like You're Famous

#141

Post by WJW »

keiferski wrote: post #96
dommrr wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making quite the assumption there. There are quite a few among us focusing on creating the best possible work. And there are quite a few back then who did the opposite. Wouldn't you wonder where the conception that things were different came from?

As I said, I could be wrong. If you have an example of artists in the distant past lamenting the fact that they can’t do what they want and instead must make art for money, I’d be glad to read them. I didn’t say people today aren’t creating the best possible work, I said this focus on the juxtaposition between the market and the self seems like a recent thing to me.

Depends on how you define "lamenting". Unless there are diaries of the artists in question, it is very difficult to know the private thoughts of people in the distant past. That said, there are certainly well-documented stories of artists being forced to change their work because of (unreasonable) demands from their patrons.

One example is the Windsor guildhall [1], where the architect was forced to add extra columns "for safety reasons" even though he knew they were unnecessary and even though they conflicted with his artistic vision. He was clearly unhappy with this and made them all an inch short of the ceiling as a demonstration to later generations, even though it was impossible to see this from ground level so he still got paid.

Michelangelo would also appease his patron (gonfaliere Soderini) while he was present, famously by faking the altering of the nose of his statue of David. Then some years later while Soderini had fled to Rome for unrelated reasons, Michelangelo publicly made fun of Soderini and mentioned that he only worked for him because he paid so well [2].

These are just some examples that readily came to mind, I'm sure there are many many more. The concept of patronage has existed at least since Roman times, and very much implied that the artists involved would spend their time glorifying their patron instead of just doing "what they want".

[1] https://inel.wordpress.com/2007/02/09/sir-christopher-wrens-...

[2] https://100swallows.com/2007/09/22/michelangelo-as-a-backbit...

Re: Stop Acting Like You're Famous

#142

Post by iamben »

mapreduce wrote: post #110

Why is it so that every so often one of these feel-good LinkedIn-style posts make it to the front page? Is there so much demand for banality on this site? I come here to read good tech articles or articles that stimulate my curiosity and it is sad to see these articles upvoted to the top when so many other good articles at https://news.ycombinator.com/newest continue to languish.

I think it's similar to a well shared meme, or a self help book. Sometimes something (simple/banal(!)) just encapsulates the way a lot of people are thinking or feeling but haven't managed to verbalise. You read it and think "huh, that's very true," come back to HN and vote it up. The fact other people are doing the same is a nice justification that you're not alone in feeling that way, particularly in the midst of a crowd of high achievers.

Re: Stop Acting Like You're Famous

#143

Post by cableshaft »

blowski wrote: post #127
emotional_fool wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you mind sharing those accounts?

I'd suggest going through https://news.ycombinator.com/leaders and looking at their submission history.

Wow, I thought I had accumulated a pretty decent amount of karma with my 7800 over the past decade, but nope, those put me to shame.

Interesting idea. I'll give it a shot.

Re: Stop Acting Like You're Famous

#144

Post by apples_oranges »

mapreduce wrote: post #110

Why is it so that every so often one of these feel-good LinkedIn-style posts make it to the front page? Is there so much demand for banality on this site? I come here to read good tech articles or articles that stimulate my curiosity and it is sad to see these articles upvoted to the top when so many other good articles at https://news.ycombinator.com/newest continue to languish.

HN is too popular, too many users water it down. I hope I will soon discover what the next place like this used to be, is now

Re: Stop Acting Like You're Famous

#145

Post by cess11 »

Springtime wrote: post #115

> Anything you do or create will probably receive little to no attention, so stop optimizing for a non-existent audience [...] The most egregious thing you can do with any activity is daydream about how you can make money off of it [...] In the end, find something you enjoy doing and just do it because you enjoy it. I don't understand the equivalence the author is ultimately making in suggesting that creating somethi…

Tucked away deep in the filesystem I have some programs that I rarely execute, that do a few things well and many others not so well, that I keep polishing. This code is secret, kept for the joy of just rubbing it every now and then and looking at it, having a little feel for how coding could be if it was disconnected from the toil and economics of everyday life. Disconnected from other people.

Re: Stop Acting Like You're Famous

#146

Post by Springtime »

rndmio wrote: post #119
Springtime wrote: post #115

> Anything you do or create will probably receive little to no attention, so stop optimizing for a non-existent audience [...] The most egregious thing you can do with any activity is daydream about how you can make money off of it [...] In the end, find something you enjoy doing and just do it because you enjoy it. I don't understand the equivalence the author is ultimately making in suggesting that creating somethi…

I would suggest you don't understand the equivalence because it's not there. They aren't saying that creating something with polish is expecting to make money off it. They're saying when you start a new hobby or interest forget about trying to tailor your output to an audience that doesn't exist and focus on skill. Maybe you really want to produce something polished, but the reasoning for that should be for your own…

I mean, consider there are a swathe of things I've made for self-development, that aren't released to others since they're incomplete, less usable for others not sharing the same brain, not great quality, etc.

It would weigh on me from an empathetic standpoint to not improve upon them if being released to others, so they're not and that's fine. Much like an artist's practice sketches they're intended for one's own private goals only.

The article isn't really framed like that though and downplays the internet as an inherent audience. Improving something even for just a random other person to enjoy/find utility in isn't inherently attention or money chasing, it's just bridging a gap.

Re: Stop Acting Like You're Famous

#147

Post by ergonaught »

rogual wrote: post #138
lapcat wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is a comment site masquerading as a news site. A large percentage of commenters go directly to the comments without ever reading the article. They just want an excuse to spout their opinions.

And to read the opinions that other HNers spout. The comments are often better than the articles. Also, I know I'll be able to read them without fending off popups and dark patterns.

The comments here as elsewhere are overwhelmingly garbage, and generally worse than even the “bad” articles.

Re: Stop Acting Like You're Famous

#148

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

blowski wrote: post #127
emotional_fool wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you mind sharing those accounts?

I'd suggest going through https://news.ycombinator.com/leaders and looking at their submission history.

Hmm... See a whole lot of experience, there. Maybe this isn't just "a young man's game," after all...

Re: Stop Acting Like You're Famous

#150

Post by brabel »

lapcat wrote: post #140
rogual wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to read the opinions that other HNers spout. The comments are often better than the articles. Also, I know I'll be able to read them without fending off popups and dark patterns.

> The comments are often better than the articles. I disagree.

Same here. The top comment we're discussing is a good example of comments I really dislike :/ people think that only things they find interesting should be upvoted by everyone else :D that kind of thinking, which is very common in HN comments, shows just how much one can lack understanding of others, their motivations, how people's tastes/objectives/world views can be completely and utterly different than their own.
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