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Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

wsj.com

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Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#141

Post by Clent »

ryandrake wrote: post #124

I'm as glad as anyone else to see an abusive company get some scrutiny, B U T . . . Everyone is complaining about Ticketmaster but they're still giving them their money, so how are they supposed to respond? They are not being financially incentivized to change their ways. This feels a lot like the video gamer who hates Video Game Company XYZ with the passion of a thousand suns, yet like clockwork buys their video gam…

When did seeing a live event become a luxury?

Live events have been the norm throughout history.

The fact that it can now be classified as a luxury speaks to the need for drastic change.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#142

Post by newsclues »

flightster wrote: post #75
voisin wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Cartel” doesn’t preclude a single leader. See: Escobar et al.

You are right, but in in his "cartel", everyone was working for him. Kind of a monarchy. I feel these cartels are more of an actual oligarchy where each player has a separate role that gives it power instead of just reporting up to Pablo. Taking the insurance example you have the "suppliers" (doctors, drug companies and device companies), the "venue" (hospital) and the "extractor" (insurer). Similarly you have the "s…

I’m not so sure about Escobar, some people have suggested the Ochoa family was really running things behind the show.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#143

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Clent wrote: post #141
ryandrake wrote: post #124

I'm as glad as anyone else to see an abusive company get some scrutiny, B U T . . . Everyone is complaining about Ticketmaster but they're still giving them their money, so how are they supposed to respond? They are not being financially incentivized to change their ways. This feels a lot like the video gamer who hates Video Game Company XYZ with the passion of a thousand suns, yet like clockwork buys their video gam…

When did seeing a live event become a luxury? Live events have been the norm throughout history. The fact that it can now be classified as a luxury speaks to the need for drastic change.

> When did seeing a live event become a luxury? Live events have been the norm throughout history

As a luxury. Put on by a Roman politician running for office, or as a rare treat travelling through town.

Also, caveat: TicketMaster has a monopoly on ultra-large venues. You can see small bands and plays without ever touching TM.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#144

Post by kxrm »

ryandrake wrote: post #124

I'm as glad as anyone else to see an abusive company get some scrutiny, B U T . . . Everyone is complaining about Ticketmaster but they're still giving them their money, so how are they supposed to respond? They are not being financially incentivized to change their ways. This feels a lot like the video gamer who hates Video Game Company XYZ with the passion of a thousand suns, yet like clockwork buys their video gam…

> Everyone is complaining about Ticketmaster but they're still giving them their money, so how are they supposed to respond? They are not being financially incentivized to change their ways.

That's a monopoly. The actual product being a luxury item has no bearing on whether a business practice is damaging to consumers. If I have no other choice but to buy tickets for a show through TM, I can't easily avoid them to choose a better service.

Frankly breaking up Ticket Master is something that should have been looked into decades ago.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#145

Post by newsclues »

ryandrake wrote: post #124

I'm as glad as anyone else to see an abusive company get some scrutiny, B U T . . . Everyone is complaining about Ticketmaster but they're still giving them their money, so how are they supposed to respond? They are not being financially incentivized to change their ways. This feels a lot like the video gamer who hates Video Game Company XYZ with the passion of a thousand suns, yet like clockwork buys their video gam…

The luxury of happiness.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#146

Post by Aunche »

viraptor wrote: post #73
amadeuspagel wrote: post #68

The only relevant monopoly for a Taylor Swift concert is Taylor Swift. Fans would use any platform to buy to tickets for any venue in any city.

True in theory, but because of exclusivity deals with venues, they can't use "any venue". Basically at the level of Taylor Swift, she would have to create her own arenas for this to work. She could well do it one day though...

I don't see why exclusivity deals with the venues have anything to do with the price customers pay though. That only changes how this revenue gets distributed. The price of a good is generally going to be the intersection between supply and demand. If Taylor Swift really wanted to, I'm sure she can negotiate with Ticketmaster and venues to cap tickets at $100 and take measures to prevent scalping.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#147

Post by tomjakubowski »

BHSPitMonkey wrote: post #112
btown wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An artist might want to opt out of this, though. They might think, and reasonably so, that the optics of having affordable tickets - even if they make less overall - is better for their brand identity and long—term benefit. That LiveNation has created a de facto system where they cannot opt out of their price setting is at the heart of the entire matter.

Affordable tickets requires a way to combat scalping, which in turn butts up against freedom to resell/transfer tickets after purchase. It's a hard game to win whenever scarcity and economics are involved.

Radiohead does this, banning scalping and limiting prices/supply. It seems to work out pretty well with the fan base. May be due to the band having obsessive and largely left-wing fans

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#148

Post by 015a »

calgoo wrote: post #79
voidwtf wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand correctly Ticketmaster is still the one creating this problem, they demand exclusivity in their contracts which often means the venue has no choice if they want to participate in a large enough market to continue operating. Similarly artists have trouble securing large venues if not participating in their scheme. This is the problem with most 'monopolies', they reach a certain critical mass where they…

Taylor swift is big enough that she could build a venue in each location if she wanted, so that not an issue. If Taylor and a few other large artists gave the middle finger to ticketmaster and basically created their own ticket system, i promise you that they would have enough pull to basically solve this. However, like you said, thats not in their or their labels interest.

The artists are not generally the ones who select who to sell tickets through; its the venues.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#149

Post by [deleted] »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #28
kevmo wrote: post #20

When was the last time the Justice Department actually broke up a monopoly? Don't these suits usually result in a fine and an agreement to stop doing XYZ while both parties wink and nod, then the government lawyers go work in lucrative private practice a few years later?

Yes this is basically correct. The lawsuits can also drag out for years. They can be avoided by late changes - for example Microsoft just removed Teams from Office bundles, and will get away with having caused damage to users and competitors for years. Congress has avoided the responsibility of passing new harsher antitrust legislation that simply skips the lawsuits and goes straight to fines.

[deleted]

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#150

Post by [deleted] »

fsckboy wrote: post #99
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #18

This is already a solved problem- look at how airline seats are handled.

> This is already a solved problem- look at how airline seats are handled. you want to solve the problem of airline tickets, let people resell their tickets to other travellers.

[deleted]
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