Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

blogs.oracle.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 160 posts

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#141

Post by vbezhenar »

zimpenfish wrote: post #139
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does not seems stable, when all Java based applications are crashing.

> when all Java based applications are crashing That probably needs to be qualified with "Oracle JVM Java applications" because I've had many hours of running Minecraft on macOS 14.4 under Zulu's JVM (a pre-14.4 release which means it doesn't have any workarounds) without any issues.

Almost all Java builds including Zulu are made from the same OpenJDK code base. The fact that you didn't experience crashes does not tell anything. May be you were lucky or this particular bug was not manifesting for this particular application.

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#142

Post by vbezhenar »

flohofwoe wrote: post #105
LadyCailin wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It said it affected back to Java 8, so seems like this design has been there for a while, and since older versions are EOL, any Java level fix would not be patched back.

I wonder what that means for the Android SDK, which AFAIK requires an ancient Java8 runtime for the command line SDK tools on macOS.

Java 8 is not EOL.

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#143

Post by funcDropShadow »

chaostheory wrote: post #87
amelius wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So MacOS is trying to be smart, changes their API, and now we're blaming the JVM for doing something we don't understand? At least they could have provided a path back to the old behavior.

That’s how MS works which leads to compatibility, but less stability. Historically with Apple, it’s their way or the highway. Less compatibility, but the OS is more stable.

If the OS changes its fundamental behaviors it is less stable not more.. It might be more secure, though I am not convinced in this case.

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#144

Post by fifteen1506 »

xcv123 wrote: post #92
kmiller68 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that document said something along the lines of "a SIGKILL may only be issued when XYZ" where XYZ didn't include this case then I'd agree with you. I don't see anything in there that says when a SIGKILL should be or, more importantly, should not be generated. So it seems perfectly valid for an implementation of an OOB memory access to generate a SIGKILL and a SIGSEGV. That SIGSEGV will never be seen because the SI…

When kernel developers violate POSIX standards and break the JVM (and other applications not yet reported), it's a bug. Can't justify it or make excuses. Apple really fucked up here. Linus Torvalds has a policy: "WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE!". You just don't release stupid changes like this in a kernel. I'm sure the team at Apple are not pleased that this bug got into production.

Specially when changing that just on the last, final, release.

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#145

Post by kaba0 »

stephenr wrote: post #127
jvmboi wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no conceivable version of a road system where that behavior would ever be okay. However, it's not only conceivable but, apparently standard practice in systems programming, to "Try and Fail" instead of "Only Proceed if allowed". So, if we want a tortured metaphor what JVM is doing is like trying to pass a turnstile to see if the pass is still valid so that on the happy path it saves the extra check. Now App…

> There was no conceivable version of a road system where that behavior would ever be okay. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Are you suggesting that the approach taken here was at one point a documented acceptable approach, according to Apple?

According to UNIX, which MacOS is certified of being.

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#146

Post by kaba0 »

sunshinerag wrote: post #95
amelius wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So MacOS is trying to be smart, changes their API, and now we're blaming the JVM for doing something we don't understand? At least they could have provided a path back to the old behavior.

macOS is trying to keep its systems safe. Can’t leave the back door open for few who were used to it.

What is it a backdoor to?

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#148

Post by vbezhenar »

kaba0 wrote: post #147
vbezhenar wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java 8 is not EOL.

It is not, if you pay for support.

No, you can just download Adoptium, Azul and probably other builds. They're up to date and will be for few years. Not sure about Oracle, but wouldn't recommend it anyway.

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#149

Post by dimask »

8crazyideas wrote: post #56

I just bought a MacBook Pro with the M3 Max chip and installed MATLAB R2023b. Sonoma 14.3 is in place. As a requirement, I had to also install Corretto 8. MathWorks only supports the Java 8 JRE included with Amazon Corretto 8. I am already having several problems in MATLAB with his new setup. Can I assume that updating to Sonoma 14.4 might very well cause even more problems? I really don't understand any of this.

I would not update for the time being. If it works it will probably break, if it is broken it may break more.

Btw what sort of problems are you facing? I have had problems with closing figures, but figured it out eventually with a workaround [0].

[0] https://se.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/answers/2027964-matla...

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#150

Post by zimpenfish »

vbezhenar wrote: post #141
zimpenfish wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when all Java based applications are crashing That probably needs to be qualified with "Oracle JVM Java applications" because I've had many hours of running Minecraft on macOS 14.4 under Zulu's JVM (a pre-14.4 release which means it doesn't have any workarounds) without any issues.

Almost all Java builds including Zulu are made from the same OpenJDK code base. The fact that you didn't experience crashes does not tell anything. May be you were lucky or this particular bug was not manifesting for this particular application.

> or this particular bug was not manifesting for this particular application.

"all Java based applications are crashing" is a false statement either way.

Post reply on HN