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'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

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Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#141

Post by pydry »

lostlogin wrote: post #56
wordhydrogen wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just speculating here but isn’t jumping out a window in Russia usually an implication it was ordered by the Russian state (ex: FSB) while in the US a framed suicides are assumed to be done by numerous non-associated actors. So in one place a single entity is responsible and in another it’s multiple entities. It doesn’t seem surprising to me that there would be an affinity towards a particular method within entities.

> jumping out a window Or a poisoning with a ludicrously rare poison, a strange car crash, a plane falling out the sky, dying at a gulag when you were fine a few days earlier etc etc. It’s a very unsafe place when you don’t toe the line.

>It’s a very unsafe place when you don’t toe the line.

Very much like America, apparently.

The part where plenty of people express skepticism that theses death were really suspicious seems to be similar too.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#142

Post by rawTruthHurts »

snickerer wrote: post #66
ixaxaar wrote: post #12

Oh so in Russia its jumping out a window and in the USA its some random method of suicide? Why not be specific, and consistent, like Russia?

Because in Russia it is an open message to the public 'don't mess with the KGB or we kill you and maybe your children'. Everybody knows and understands who is the sender and the message. Classic mafia move of intimidation. It is a message to the living. In the Western World the secret services kill to silence people, not to broadcast messages to the public. Quite the opposite PR strategy.

> In the Western World the secret services kill to silence people, not to broadcast messages to the public. Quite the opposite PR strategy.

Yep. I totally didn't get the "don't mess with big corps" message at all.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#143

Post by ImHereToVote »

ummonk wrote: post #123
georgespencer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe Epstein was murdered you are in a tiny, tiny, tiny minority of very gullible or very simple minded people. Upon a cursory review of both the facts of the matter and the very best arguments conspiracists can copy and paste, it is self-evident that he killed himself.

And the cameras just happened to be out of order when he chose to kill himself of course.

It's easy when your world view hinges on the fact that responsible adults are running the world.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#144

Post by Qem »

windowshopping wrote: post #29

This is kind of mind-blowing to me. First case in my lifetime where a US corporation appears to have murdered someone for political reasons. Has this happened before? I assume it has but it's very rare.

Coca-Cola ordered some Colombian workers killed. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinaltrainal_v._Coca-Cola_Co%2...

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#145

Post by Thlom »

XorNot wrote: post #81
madaxe_again wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing is also deeply entwined with state/political entities with a strong vested interest in preserving the status quo who may not be squeamish about direct action. Against the general backdrop of Boeing’s woes, suiciding a whistleblower is low-hanging fruit. Who knows. Maybe he has a deadman’s set up.

Contrary to popular belief, there is not a readily and highly available supply of assassins and hitmen in the world. The problem with this whole "he totally didn't kill himself" thing is...okay, so how did they kill him? Because you can't just put a gun in the hand of an unwilling person and force them to shoot themselves without leaving evidence.

One of the richest men in Norway cultivated a relationship with a torpedo and used his services on several occasions. It happens.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#146

Post by gonzo41 »

geek_at wrote: post #6

While I can't see "Boeing" (as a whole command structure) can be blamed for his death I do see the possibility of some corrupt person in a high position fearing what he had on him personally and ordered a strike against him.

Time for everyone to rewatch Michael Clayton.

Boeing is a defense contractor. They'll have 'contacts'.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#147

Post by dylan604 »

lukan wrote: post #137
KingOfCoders wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for an eBay Inc. company as an executive, never thought that could happen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal

Never heard of that before. What stands out to me is, that the executive person ordering it, Steve Wymer, was not charged at all, despite making very plain statements: "Wymer texted Baugh that Ina Steiner was a "biased troll who needs to be BURNED DOWN"; that he wanted "to see ashes"; and that Baugh should do "whatever it takes."" I would imagine the same will happen here(if it was murder). Some pawns get executed, w…

It's always hard for that lone wolf to know if it's just a dog whistle or a true call to action. But I'm sure that's exactly the way it's intended to allow for plausible deniability. "I never meant for someone to take me seriously. I was just venting. Locker room talk."

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#148

Post by topspin »

vnchr wrote: post #24
jraby3 wrote: post #5

Wouldn’t the time to have killed him be before he testified?

He was killed between pre-trial deposition interviews pertaining to a trial that is still upcoming.[1] One might speculate he was killed immediately after it was confirmed in a deposition that he had knowledge damaging to Boeing, and he intended to testify in that upcoming trial. [1] https://au.news.yahoo.com/boeing-whistleblower-john-barnett-...

IANAL. However: SC civil law Rule 32 USE OF DEPOSITIONS IN COURT PROCEEDINGS: (a)(3) The deposition of a witness, whether or not a party, may be used by any party for any purpose if the court finds: (A) that the witness is dead; or etc...

This aligns very closely with the Federal rule on the same:

Federal Rules of Civil Procedure Rule 32. Using Depositions in Court Proceedings (4) Unavailable Witness. A party may use for any purpose the deposition of a witness, whether or not a party, if the court finds: (A) that the witness is dead; etc...

I can't tell which jurisdiction applies here because the news stories on the case itself are all hot garbage, I'm not trying that hard and IANAL, but my guess is it's the latter. Either way, the deposition(s) will likely get in.

Now, anything can happen, but it's hard to imagine Boeing or whomever, knowing that the deposition(s) is likely admissible in the event of the death of Barnett, would then assassinate him.

The cynic in me wonders if Barnett had recently learned his case was about to fall through for some reason we haven't learned of yet.

[1] https://www.sccourts.org/courtReg/displayRule.cfm?ruleID=32.... [2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_32#:~:text=A%20d....

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#149

Post by KingOfCoders »

lukan wrote: post #137
KingOfCoders wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for an eBay Inc. company as an executive, never thought that could happen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal

Never heard of that before. What stands out to me is, that the executive person ordering it, Steve Wymer, was not charged at all, despite making very plain statements: "Wymer texted Baugh that Ina Steiner was a "biased troll who needs to be BURNED DOWN"; that he wanted "to see ashes"; and that Baugh should do "whatever it takes."" I would imagine the same will happen here(if it was murder). Some pawns get executed, w…

Once in another company, the CEO told the legal counsel in a meeting, don't send me emails, do what is needed.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#150

Post by hnfong »

gruez wrote: post #132
hnfong wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you dismiss all the evidence "supporting this theory" (your words) then obviously you wouldn't find anything that supports it. Evidence does not have to be perfect. Even biased evidence should update your priors. There is evidence supporting this theory. It doesn't mean it is definitely true.

> If you dismiss all the evidence "supporting this theory" (your words) then obviously you wouldn't find anything that supports it. Right, and the converse is you accepting any evidence that vaguely conforms to the narrative of "he got killed by boeing", regardless of how shaky it is. >Evidence does not have to be perfect. Even biased evidence should update your priors. There is evidence supporting this theory. It do…

> Right, and the converse is you accepting any evidence that

I literally said one must update their priors, not just "accepting" it. Or maybe updating priors is a form of "acceptance", but now you claim it isn't a problem:

> You claim that we should update our priors even based on biased evidence, but I never claimed otherwise

The comment you replied to just answered your question: "is there anything supporting this theory". Presumably everyone here knows basic Bayesian probability, or at least knows how to weigh supporting evidence without just blindly accepting it. Claiming otherwise seems to be rather uncharitable interpretation of the comment you replied to.

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