Nvidia founder tells Stanford students their high expectations is a hindrance • Hacker News Board

Re: Nvidia founder tells Stanford students their high expectations is a hindrance

#141

Post by StefanBatory » Thu, Mar 14, 2024, 12:06 PM UTC

Doxin wrote: post #140

StefanBatory wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that fine though? I was raised to believe that asking for anything more is a sign of pride and vainness. If my work won't be recognized, than all it means that it wasn't good or useful, and asking for anything more is pride.

That comes across as naive to me. Surely any boss would be more than happy to pay you (much) less than you are worth? If your work isn't be recognized does not mean it's not good or useful. It just means it's not recognized.

Perhaps it is, but I believe it's important to fight off any feelings of pride or narcissism.

The only variable I can change is myself, and thus I recognise that every single mistake or failure is mine and mine only. I believe that's the healthiest outlook on life that one can have.

Also, I think too I don't have any right to say what I'm worth - my worth is determined by how much my labor creates value for others. If I'm paid peanuts, that speaks badly of me.

Re: Nvidia founder tells Stanford students their high expectations is a hindrance

#142

Post by indoordin0saur » Thu, Mar 14, 2024, 1:59 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #61

indoordin0saur wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know many people who have attended ivy league schools and $100k+ debt is not unusual among them.

Not statistically it isn't. I invite you to cite data. Again, you can't get a bank to write you loans of that size without collateral of some kind. Banks will write loans for the subsidized amount (currently capped at $31k per student federally), plus some from other guarantee sources like state programs, and throw in a little on the expectation of future salary. The only people getting $100k loan balances as undergr…

Maybe Stanford is better. My reference would be attendees of Princeton and Columbia.

Re: Nvidia founder tells Stanford students their high expectations is a hindrance

#143

Post by Draiken » Thu, Mar 14, 2024, 4:55 PM UTC

tester756 wrote: post #120

Draiken wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying it's pure luck. I'm saying the only relevant part is luck. If you get billions of smart hard working people, you still only get a few hundred billionaires. The only differentiator is luck. You're one of the lucky that could migrate, went to the right schools, met the right set of people, were born in the right year and so on. It's purely the logical conclusion. Some people get inspired through quotes l…

>If you get billions of smart hard working people, you still only get a few hundred billionaires. The only differentiator is luck. There are no billion equal people. There are other differentiators than just opportunity: environment, background, culture, childhood, experience, vision and maybe traits. >It's purely the logical conclusion. Some people get inspired through quotes like that, and it's probably good to lie…

>There are other differentiators than just opportunity: environment, background, culture, childhood, experience, vision and maybe traits.

That's what I mean when I say luck. It's a combination of millions of variables that eventually lead to the successful outcome. The vast majority of those we have no control over.

So I stand by it. Ultimately the difference is luck. You can't pinpoint one of those millions of events and say: this was it. It's always a combination of them all.

>That's not a lie, it just doesn't guarantee success. But it increases probability (when you talk in general, not some specific person).

If inspirational quotes were phrased like that, I agree, that's not a lie. But at least in my bubble I only see folks with fanatical belief that if you work hard you are guaranteed success. I even got personal attacks for my comment from one of those fanatics.

Or even more commonly, like in this case, already successful people attributing their success to "hard work", which is extremely misleading.

The Tyranny of Merit[1] talks about this in a lot more depth.

[1]: https://www.amazon.com/Tyranny-Merit-Whats-Become-Common/dp/...

Re: Nvidia founder tells Stanford students their high expectations is a hindrance

#144

Post by Draiken » Thu, Mar 14, 2024, 5:05 PM UTC

tester756 wrote: post #119

Draiken wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No? The point is: he's no more qualified than anyone else. Whatever he's saying is simply not reproducible and most certainly not what made him a billionaire. Otherwise we could all just replicate whatever any billionaire does and inevitably become one. That's not how it works though, is it? It's easy to say it was hard work that got you there after you're the 1e-20% that made it.

>The point is: he's no more qualified than anyone else. On the other hand to what you're saying He had to make fuckton of decisions over his whole time as a CEO and that's where it brought him, so he definitely had at least some idea, vision, direction supported by some traits.

I don't know mate. Maybe you're right, but I still doubt it.

Once you're a CEO with hundreds of thousands of very smart people under you, making the wrong decision is much, much harder. There's some skill to it, but so few people get into that position that simply not making completely dumb decisions can already lead to success. A good company has self-sufficient people that don't need to be micro-managed.

I've said it many times before: give someone billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of talented individuals and I'm pretty sure they'll manage just fine. But we can't know for sure, so... maybe you're right in that sense.

Going back to the original point though, had he pointed out his decisions and vision, that'd be completely different compared to attributing it to "suffering and pain". That's plain silly.

Re: Nvidia founder tells Stanford students their high expectations is a hindrance

#145

Post by Draiken » Thu, Mar 14, 2024, 5:19 PM UTC

uxcolumbo wrote: post #137

Draiken wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a load of crap. Being a hard worker is not causation for being rich. That's such a naive take. How many people working 3 jobs you know are billionaires? Even millionaires? Are those not hard working people? Yeah, citing crypto, which is literally gambling, tells me the kind of argument you have. Not sure why the personal attacks are necessary.

I don’t understand why you are being downvoted. Can folks who downvote please explain why? Because survivorship is a real thing and becoming a billionaire isn’t just down to hard work or resilience.

It's simply easier to down vote than it is to have a conversation. Especially with strong arguments.

The fact is: people want to believe hard work leads to success. It's a nice thought.

Many people center their entire lives around this concept. If someone challenges it, it can make them very angry.

> isn’t just down to hard work or resilience.

I'd argue it's never down to either of those. These are way too common to be relevant in the equation. Imagine if I told you all hard working resilient people were billionaires. I'd be factually incorrect and be rightfully called crazy.

But when folks don't say it out loud and instead only imply, it's suddenly accurate. Makes no sense.

Re: Nvidia founder tells Stanford students their high expectations is a hindrance

#146

Post by Doxin » Fri, Mar 15, 2024, 10:39 AM UTC

StefanBatory wrote: post #141

Doxin wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comes across as naive to me. Surely any boss would be more than happy to pay you (much) less than you are worth? If your work isn't be recognized does not mean it's not good or useful. It just means it's not recognized.

Perhaps it is, but I believe it's important to fight off any feelings of pride or narcissism. The only variable I can change is myself, and thus I recognise that every single mistake or failure is mine and mine only. I believe that's the healthiest outlook on life that one can have. Also, I think too I don't have any right to say what I'm worth - my worth is determined by how much my labor creates value for others. I…

The point is that, by default, you're not paid the value you create for others. It's not pride or narcissism to recognize that in a capitalist system everyone is out for themselves. If YOU aren't out for yourself, no one is.