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Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

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Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#141

Post by ses1984 »

_cenw wrote: post #116
_bohm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s being politically sensitive to assert that this was obviously the intent of Google and that it demonstrates that they’re wholly consumed by the woke mind virus, or whatever, as many commenters have done. The sensible alternative explanation is that this issue is an overcorrection made in an attempt to address well-documented biases these models have when not fine tuned.

"woke mind virus" should be an automatic ban from this site, it's a thought terminating cliche so strong, any semblance of "converse curiously" is immediately thrown out the window, into a well, down into hell, bouncing around the back of the flat earth

The person above you compares the woke mind virus to a “sensible alternative explanation” so yeah they are kinda framing it as a thought terminating cliche.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#142

Post by DonHopkins »

ctrw wrote: post #99
oplaadpunt wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did not say he wanted to ban images, that is an exaggeration. I see the danger as polluting the historical record with fake images (even as memes/jokes), and spreading wrong preconceptions now backed by real-looking images. This is all under the assumptions there are no bad actors, which makes it even worse. I would say; don't ban it, but you morally just shouldn't do it.

The real danger is that this anti-racism starts a justified round of new racism. By lowering standards for black doctors do you think anyone in their right mind would pick black doctors? No I want the fat old jew. I know no one put him in the hospital to fill out a quota.

[flagged]

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#144

Post by steveBK123 »

f6v wrote: post #91
willsmith72 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tbh i think it's less a political issue than a technical/product management one what does a "board member" look like? probably you can benefit by offering more than 50 year old white man in suit. if that's what an ai trained on all human knowledge thinks, maybe we can do some adjustment what does a samurai warrior look like? probably is a little more race-related

I agree, but this requires reasoning, the way you did it. Is this within the model capability? If not, there’re two routes. First one: make inference based on real data, then most board will be male and white. Second: hard-core rules based on your social justice views. I think the second is worse than the first one.

Yes this all seems to fall under the category of "well intentioned but quickly goes awry because it's so ham fisted".

If you train your models on real world data, and real world data reflects the world as it is.. then some prompts are going to return non-diverse results. If you force diversity, but in ONLY IN ONE PARTICULAR DIRECTION.. then it turns into the reverse racism stuff the right likes to complain about.

If it outright refuses to show a white male when asked, because you don't allow racial prompts.. that's probably ok if it enforces for all races

But.. If 95% of CEOs are white males, but your AI returns almost no white males.. but 95% of rappers are black males and so it returns black females for that prompt.. your AI has one-way directional diversity bias overcorrection basked in. The fact that it successfully shows 100% black people when asked for say a Kenyan in a prompt, but again can't show white people when asked for 1800s Germans is comedically poorly done.

Look I'm a 100% democrat voter, but this stuff is extremely poorly done here. It's like the worst of 2020s era "silence is violence" and "everyone is racist unless they are anti-racist" overcorrection.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#145

Post by londons_explore »

Jensson wrote: post #139

> Of course the politically sensitive people are waging war over it. Just like politically sensitive people waged war over Google identifying an obscured person as a Gorilla. Its just a silly mistake, how could anyone get upset over that?

Engineers can easily spend more time and effort dealing with these 'corner cases' than they do building the whole of the rest of the product.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#146

Post by jefftk »

ben_w wrote: post #133
willsmith72 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tbh i think it's less a political issue than a technical/product management one what does a "board member" look like? probably you can benefit by offering more than 50 year old white man in suit. if that's what an ai trained on all human knowledge thinks, maybe we can do some adjustment what does a samurai warrior look like? probably is a little more race-related

> what does a samurai warrior look like? probably is a little more race-related If you ask Hollywood, it looks like Tom Cruise with a beard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Last_Samurai.jpg

Tom Cruise portrays Nathan Algren, an American captain of the 7th Cavalry Regiment, whose personal and emotional conflicts bring him into contact with samurai warriors in the wake of the Meiji Restoration in 19th century Japan.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#147

Post by quitit »

sycamoretrees wrote: post #22

why are we using image generators to represent actual history? If we want accuracy surely we can use actual documents that are not imagined by a bunch of code. If you want to write fanfic or whatever then just adjust the prompt

In your favour is the fact that AI can "hallucinate", and generate realistic, but false information. So that does raise the question "why are you using AI when seeking factual reference material?".

However on the other hand that is a misuse of AI, since we already know that hallucinations exist, are common, and that AI output must be verified by a human.

So as a counterpoint, there are sound reasons for using AI to generate images based on history. The same reasons are why we use illustrations to demonstrate ideas where there is no photographic record.

A straightforward example is visualising the lifetime/lifestyle of long past historical figures.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#148

Post by AirborneUnicorn »

db48x wrote: post #125
mrtksn wrote: post #87

Honestly, I'm baffled by the American keywordism and obsession with images. They seem to think that if they don't say certain words and show people from minorities in the marketing material the racism and discrimination will be solved and atrocities from the past will be forgiven. It only become unmanageable and builds up resentment. Anyway, maybe its a phase. Sometimes I wonder if the openly racist European&Asians w…

[flagged]

Do you have sources for these events? I’d like to read them. Thanks!

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#149

Post by brabel »

troupo wrote: post #92
tiznow wrote: post #56

The outcry on this issue has caused me to believe American society is too far divided. Full disclosure, I'm not white. But across a few social media/discussion platforms I more or less saw the same people who cry out about AI daily turn this issue into a tee to sledge "fragile white people" and "techbros". Meanwhile, the aforementioned groups correctly pointed out that Gemini's image generation takes its cues from an…

Another problem is that the US spills its own problems and "solutions" onto the world as if the one true set of problems and solutions. E.g. at the height of the BLM movement there were BLM protests and marches in Sweden. 20% of Swedish population is foreign-born, and yet there are no such marches and protests about any of the ethnicities in Sweden (many of which face similar problems). Why? Because the US culture, a…

Sweden is hilariously influenced by American culture to the point I think most Swedes see themselves as sort of Americans in exile. Completely agree that BLM marches in Sweden are about as misplaced as if they had marched for the American Indigenous peoples of Sweden.
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