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It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

open-web-advocacy.org

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Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#141

Post by sccxy »

szasamasa wrote: post #84
tremarley wrote: post #38

Since iOS 17.4 for EU users 1. Apple will DELETE user's data without notice 2. Lot of apps will stop working and there will be no way to access them without update 3. Web Push will stop working; users expecting notifications will never get them 4. Apple breaks the Web platform This was published in the document "Update on apps distributed in the European Union" https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-…

is this true? I mean they cannot delete Chrome data which web capabilities will actually not work any more? I mean service workers will not, and it is a big one... all they do is caching and you can create an offline working website with them web push another big one (not for me, but many use them) which other web capabilities does Apple target?

If your PWA is deleted in iOS 17.4 then your data is gone. (PWA does not share data with browser)

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#142

Post by gizmo »

pretext-1 wrote: post #40
gizmo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is a 3 trillion business that is out of growth drivers. They will need to squeeze more money out of everybody in the ecosystem to appease wall street. Or launch a new 500bn product line but I don’t think they have anything big in the pipeline.

They’re working on cars for sure

No money in cars. (That's why Tesla insists it's a robotics/AI company.)

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#144

Post by rubymamis »

wiseowise wrote: post #107
neximo64 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is quite often where people make the greatest mistake. It's all about distribution and customer usage. Most people hate and don't use PWAs. What stands in the way are Native iPhone apps are better. It also goes for android too. That's why PWAs fail. If they were successful Apple would find a way to monetise the hell out of them.

The only reason why I would install native application is if it's the only way of distribution and I absolutely NEED to use it (banking, government, etc.), for everything else if it's not in a browser - it doesn't exist to me. Native applications might offer marginal performance boost, but given how optimized modern web is and how powerful are devices that I use - that's not an argument to me unless I do something co…

I highly disagree. Web apps are notoriously slow. I'm developing a Notion alternative in Qt C++ that load large text files on my 2017 MacBook Air while on my friend's 2021 M1 Pro, the fastest web based block editor (MarkText) takes around 11x longer to load the same file. So, essentialy, my 2017 MacBook Air is FASTER just due to more efficient software.

Why are we allowing this degradation of software? Each time I think about opening Spotify (Electron) on my desktop, I dread the loading time and the RAM it would use.

For very simple apps, frameworks like Tauri should do the job. But for complex applications, let's please not lose our benchmarking standards.

My app: https://www.get-plume.com/

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#145

Post by szasamasa »

szasamasa wrote: post #108
firtoz wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title does need to match the one within the website

apparently my former title was too much for this site: "iPissed: Apple is after web capabilities to protect close-to-100B App Store Tax" which was relating to the article (and you can read the title of the original article after clicking) but I did not like "kills web apps" because it is not true in my opinion, tries to kill web apps or fights against them or cripples them in the next iOS release... it sounded too et…

I found guidelines not rules: "Otherwise please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize."

For me, "kill web apps" is misleading since we have to wait and see how the EU reacts. The original title is more of a clickbait.

I am not a power user of hacker news. I found a title to fill in and did my best.

Had I seen there a link to the guidelines or a text like: please use original title if possible, I would have done it. It is actually 1 minute "site engineering" to mention this on the submission page.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#146

Post by vdaea »

neximo64 wrote: post #53
lozenge wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't use PWAs... as they exist today. What would happen if Google added all the APIs to Chrome that are needed for every one of their iOS apps, and then offered them as "PWAs that work best with Google Chrome"? Google would not have to abide by App Store rules, nor the rules for app marketplaces, nor pay the Core Technology Fee of half a euro per install. Apple's entire approach of using their status as…

PWA's can do most things: https://whatpwacando.today . Steve Jobs also preferred PWAs and hated the app store. I'm curious as to ask what they can't do that a native app can do without any workaround whatsoever? I don't know of a single person, ordinary person, who uses PWAs. A Cordova app is a better experience.

What PWA Can Not Do Today: stick out like a sore thumb.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#147

Post by troupo »

fifafu wrote: post #56
troupo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One example: a while ago I worked on a bluetooth le based companion app for industrial sensors. The client would absolutely have built this as a web app if iOS had offered web bluetooth. With alternative engines Do you know that the only "alternative egnine" that implements hardware APIs is Chrome? Because it's a Chrome-only non-standard that Firefox opposes, too ?

Well on desktop Chrome/Edge has a high enough market share that the client would not have cared. I don’t think Apple can tell alternative browser engines what features it will allow and which not. Or is there something in the EU regulation that says browser engines must follow a standard?

> Well on desktop Chrome/Edge has a high enough market share that the client would not have cared.

Indeed. People cry "Safari is the new IE" and then literally turn around and say "well, who cares, Chrome has dominant market share, so if it only works in Chrome, it's fine".

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#148

Post by marcus0x62 »

chii wrote: post #111
anon373839 wrote: post #14

> It’s telling that this is the feature that Apple refused to share. And it makes sense: the idea that users could install safe and secure apps that Apple can’t tax, block or control is terrifying to them. I think that’s what this decision is all about. When Safari was the only browser engine on iOS, PWAs didn’t threaten the App Store because Safari delivers a degraded experience with them. With alternative browser e…

> I think Apple did not want to risk letting that happen. they've already shown a shadow of their true colors when they banned flash under the guise of security (which is also a problem, but for which apple conveniently uses as an excuse). This is their true intention. The app store and the easy revenue from those sales are just not something they'll willingly give up.

Flash was a security dumpster fire and wasn't designed for touch interfaces. That said, I don't think Apple - or any other vendor - should be able to prohibit users from running software on devices the user putatively owns.

Offer an (optional) walled-garden experience, ok, but locking down users from installing their own software is predatory.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#149

Post by marcus0x62 »

mobilemidget wrote: post #131
chii wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think Apple did not want to risk letting that happen. they've already shown a shadow of their true colors when they banned flash under the guise of security (which is also a problem, but for which apple conveniently uses as an excuse). This is their true intention. The app store and the easy revenue from those sales are just not something they'll willingly give up.

Which was about same time or just after adobe, the author of flash recommended everybody to stop using it.

I think the two decisions were somewhat related.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#150

Post by wiseowise »

palata wrote: post #132
wiseowise wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you not install a native app one day, and uninstall it the next day? Or does it not count as "temporary"? "Don't you guys have phones?" > Or are PWAs uninstalling automatically somehow? They don't weigh 100MBs. I feel extremely privileged to have access to super fast networks, but it doesn't mean that lazy developers get right to hog it all.

If you can't make a native app that doesn't weigh 100MBs, then you may need to question your work.

You want me to make other developers make their apps less than 100MBs?
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