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Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#141

Post by Izkata »

jbm wrote: post #128
ryandrake wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, studies and data could be wrong. But they should be countered with “better studies and data” not with smell checks and gut feelings.

I get that gut checks and feelings are what climate denialists use, and I'm aware of the inaccuracy involved. Still, it's literally all you have, unless you are going to create that "Journal of Uninteresting Results / Journal of Failed Experiments" and have it become the basis for people to keep their jobs in University. If you want to be an open pipe to "data", that's your prerogative.

This entire comment chain is like people arguing on behalf of the government of Nineteen Eighty-Four: Don't trust your eyes and ears, they lie, trust only what we tell you.

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#142

Post by red-iron-pine »

icedchai wrote: post #89
infotainment wrote: post #60

This feels like the "be careful what you wish for" consequence of WFH logic. Yes, you can never leave your house and do everything via Zoom! After all, why commute to a pointless office when you could be at home meeting people online? If you start thinking this way, suddenly most interactions that can be done from home start to seem like a waste of time. The question I always ask WFH advocates is this: when was the l…

After almost 4 years of WFH, I totally despise it. I miss in-person collaboration and going to lunch with coworkers. I work for an all remote company, unfortunately. I’m thinking about renting a spot at a coworking space.

I've done that. People at the coworking space weren't especially talkative, and while there were private rooms for conversations, there wasn't any monitors or outlets in there. anything sensitive had to be done at home, anyway, and since several were projects that involved PII, I had to work at home most of the time, regardless.

$320/mo to have to walk across town and try to talk to people with whom you have nothing in common with (even the same employer) except existing in physical space. like, the people weren't bad or unfriendly, but there was no organic connection. the extra exercise was nice but otherwise wasn't worth it; coworking spaces are memes.

a morning floor hockey team at the YMCA made me more friends than any in-person office experience or coworking space.

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#143

Post by red-iron-pine »

Gigachad wrote: post #114
toomuchtodo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remote Work advocate here, remote for the last 10 years, in tech for ~23 years. Show me a person worth putting meaningful effort into to build and cultivate a relationship outside of my household and I'd put the effort in. These people are already rare, and superficial/ephemeral relationships are the norm. I have made a few friends over >20 years in tech, but most people aren't there to be your friend; the moment you…

Not everyone has to be a life long friend. It’s completely fine to be friends with someone for only a year and move on. Children become friends with someone they randomly meet at a park and will never see again. I’ve found that almost everyone in the workplace is pretty open to socialising and usually has something interesting to tell you.

> and usually has something interesting to tell you.

nah. I've found that most of my coworkers were autistic video game nerds -- great, I love games too -- and that I've worked with essentially the same guy in like 4 jobs. all of their hot takes read like the same cringe posts you'd see on reddit. not bad guys, some skilled programmers, but not really interesting.

a few interesting outliers, some of whom I'm still in contact with, but after I left the org I never saw them again.

6 months after you leave the org no one there will remember your name, and I don't think it is worthwhile to restructure your work life in order to socialize with people you're only around because you need to pay your mortgage. Go to meetup.com group, or a bar, or join a sports team, book club, etc.

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#144

Post by red-iron-pine »

keiferski wrote: post #127
underlipton wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most popular VR platform at the moment is VRChat, which is almost exclusively about getting together with people and hanging out. In this case, the application removes barriers to interpersonal connection (physical distance, body image-related self-consciousness, disability, etc.). For the ways in which VR and other technologies separate people, it's because the people building that technology (an exclusive club,…

I don't think chatting to someone in a VR program is equivalent to interpersonal connection. And I say that as someone who spent a good part of my childhood playing Everquest. It's not reality, no matter how much people seem to think it is. VR is better described as ER: ersatz reality.

i believe the term is 'para-social'

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#145

Post by icedchai »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #142
icedchai wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After almost 4 years of WFH, I totally despise it. I miss in-person collaboration and going to lunch with coworkers. I work for an all remote company, unfortunately. I’m thinking about renting a spot at a coworking space.

I've done that. People at the coworking space weren't especially talkative, and while there were private rooms for conversations, there wasn't any monitors or outlets in there. anything sensitive had to be done at home, anyway, and since several were projects that involved PII, I had to work at home most of the time, regardless. $320/mo to have to walk across town and try to talk to people with whom you have nothing…

Yes, I am hesitant, and your experience only makes me more so. I may try it for a day here and there just to see what it's like. You can get a "day pass" for the coworking space near me. It's cheaper just to get a couple coffees and sit at Starbucks all day...

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#146

Post by underlipton »

keiferski wrote: post #127
underlipton wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most popular VR platform at the moment is VRChat, which is almost exclusively about getting together with people and hanging out. In this case, the application removes barriers to interpersonal connection (physical distance, body image-related self-consciousness, disability, etc.). For the ways in which VR and other technologies separate people, it's because the people building that technology (an exclusive club,…

I don't think chatting to someone in a VR program is equivalent to interpersonal connection. And I say that as someone who spent a good part of my childhood playing Everquest. It's not reality, no matter how much people seem to think it is. VR is better described as ER: ersatz reality.

You're entitled to your opinion. However, it's misguided, if not completely wrong. Many of the aspects of in-person interaction that help to build interpersonal connections are present in body-tracked, voiced virtual reality MMOs. There is a categorical difference in embodied presence when comparing something like Everquest and VRChat.

You're overfitting the reality of what's available in VR to your preconceived notions of its inadequacy as a medium for casual or friendly interaction. Basically, you're indulging in your own little bit of escapism. I think that if you see problems on the horizon, it would be best to view what's happening in the space rationally and with clear eyes.

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#147

Post by keiferski »

underlipton wrote: post #146
keiferski wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think chatting to someone in a VR program is equivalent to interpersonal connection. And I say that as someone who spent a good part of my childhood playing Everquest. It's not reality, no matter how much people seem to think it is. VR is better described as ER: ersatz reality.

You're entitled to your opinion. However, it's misguided, if not completely wrong. Many of the aspects of in-person interaction that help to build interpersonal connections are present in body-tracked, voiced virtual reality MMOs. There is a categorical difference in embodied presence when comparing something like Everquest and VRChat. You're overfitting the reality of what's available in VR to your preconceived noti…

Uh, no? I simply don’t think interacting with people in a digital space is equivalent to interacting with them in real life, and probably never will be. Human beings are physical creatures embodied in the world.

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#148

Post by underlipton »

keiferski wrote: post #147
underlipton wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're entitled to your opinion. However, it's misguided, if not completely wrong. Many of the aspects of in-person interaction that help to build interpersonal connections are present in body-tracked, voiced virtual reality MMOs. There is a categorical difference in embodied presence when comparing something like Everquest and VRChat. You're overfitting the reality of what's available in VR to your preconceived noti…

Uh, no? I simply don’t think interacting with people in a digital space is equivalent to interacting with them in real life, and probably never will be. Human beings are physical creatures embodied in the world.

Like I said, you're entitled to this opinion - even though it's wrong, for the reasons I explained above. Just because you state

>interacting with people in a digital space is equivalent to interacting with them in real life, and probably never will be

doesn't make it true.

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#149

Post by dang »

the_only_law wrote: post #98
jbm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You raise an interesting point. I used to be convinced by purely data-based and "science"-based points, but due to overly-confident sounding statistics over the past 5 years, I've stopped paying attention to it - particularly with regards to social sciences. Unless we have cameras monitoring American men at all times, we do not know that they have reduced face-to-face socializing by 30%. What we do have is very intel…

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