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Doorway effect

en.wikipedia.org

141–150 of 150 posts

Re: Doorway effect

#141
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an absolutely vast literature studying the effects of context and context changes on many different forms of cognition, going back decades. Your posts really adds little of value, and relies on some over-broad stereotypes of the soundness of psychology research. Do some google scholar searches.

> There is an absolutely vast literature studying the effects of context and context changes on many different forms of cognition, going back decades. Your posts really adds little of value, and relies on some over-broad stereotypes of the soundness of psychology research. Do some google scholar searches. In four words, the above comment is: harsh, judgmental, not curious. Below, I hope to (a) offer another point of…

I'll add further an apology. I was being rude, and I am sorry for that. It is easy to start responding in the way I did after my field, populated with many serious, careful, and brilliant researchers, gets regularly dismissed flippantly with such things as: "psychology isn't a real science, psychology isn't replica-table, psychology researchers don't know the scientific method, don't know statistics, are just p-hackers, etc etc etc, when you know that is only true for a subset of scientists, while the best tend to be experts, or collaborate with experts on the various topics needed to conduct serious science. So, please just understand where I am coming from, and do please accept my apology for my rude and presumptive demeanor.

Re: Doorway effect

#142
post #38

TOTP 2FA is terrible for this. I’ll sign into a website, pick my phone up to read the TOTP code, and instead end up on HN or Signal or something. Put the phone down after a couple of minutes, look back up to my computer screen with the 2FA prompt and go “oh yeah, that’s why I looked at my phone” That happens probably 50% of the time. And I wish that was an exaggeration.

Why do you need a phone for totp?..

Re: Doorway effect

#143
Gives literal meaning to the question “Where was I?”.

(George Carlin had that in one of his routines. “Where was I? Oh, I believe I was…” (steps over) “…right here.”)

Re: Doorway effect

#144
post #69

Have you ever walked into a room and found a vampire? No, not the sexy kind, but a foul creature with bony limbs and ashen skin? The kind that snarls as you enter, like a beast about to pounce? The kind that roots you to the spot with its sunken, hypnotic eyes, rendering you unable to flee as you watch the hideous thing uncoil from the shadows? Has your heart started racing though your legs refuse to? Have you felt t…

Mostly off-topic, but if you find this compelling, you will certainly enjoy reading the short story "There Is No Antimemetics Division" whose chapters are linked from https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/antimemetics-division-hub

I bought the book and read it based on another HN recommendation. The premise was interesting at first but the writing is trash and it ended up being the worst book I had read in recent memory. As another comment noted, it goes off the rails about halfway through. Not worth wasting paper, in my opinion. FWIW.

Re: Doorway effect

#145
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is an absolutely vast literature studying the effects of context and context changes on many different forms of cognition, going back decades. Your posts really adds little of value, and relies on some over-broad stereotypes of the soundness of psychology research. Do some google scholar searches. In four words, the above comment is: harsh, judgmental, not curious. Below, I hope to (a) offer another point of…

I'll add further an apology. I was being rude, and I am sorry for that. It is easy to start responding in the way I did after my field, populated with many serious, careful, and brilliant researchers, gets regularly dismissed flippantly with such things as: "psychology isn't a real science, psychology isn't replica-table, psychology researchers don't know the scientific method, don't know statistics, are just p-hacke…

Thank you; I appreciate this. I understand that too many people flippantly dismiss or don't have the ability to properly appreciate the hard work of doing science.

Re: Doorway effect

#146
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is an absolutely vast literature studying the effects of context and context changes on many different forms of cognition, going back decades. Your posts really adds little of value, and relies on some over-broad stereotypes of the soundness of psychology research. Do some google scholar searches. In four words, the above comment is: harsh, judgmental, not curious. Below, I hope to (a) offer another point of…

*"Many psychological studies sound convincing but are hard to replicate and/or based on low sample sizes or poor experimental design."* Many physics, chemistry, and computer science studies suffer from these as well. Science is hard, and there are a lot of constraints on research. Typically the first finding is made with limited funding, meaning limited ability to do the study right. Also, usually there is no perfect…

A great, thought-provoking comment. This makes me quite aware that I don't yet have a great theoretical/conceptual foundation for how Bayesian reasoning for one particular experiment links up with experiments that are generalizations of it. In case this sounds too vague, what I mean is this: if a generalized theory has considerable evidence, what bearing does it have one more targeted and narrow experiments? This might be clear or even obvious, but I'm not recollecting written examples of how to run the numbers.

Re: Doorway effect

#147
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair points and well said. None of what I'm about to say is not meant to be harsh or insulting... I'm simply sharing a probabilistic estimate of how I view the situation so far. How you react will further refine my perspective. I've developed antibodies to the word "pedantic", particularly when one leads with it. It seems that when people use the word, it has a tendency to make discussion harder. How often have you s…

> I've developed antibodies to the word "pedantic", particularly when one leads with it. It seems that when people use the word, it has a tendency to make discussion harder. How often have you seen someone use the word and the conversation develop further into something interesting? Versus the opposite? You're describing a correlation but haven't established causation. Is the causality: someone using the word "pedant…

I appreciate your response. I'm thinking it over. Here are some thoughts for now...

For myself and anyone (like you) who thinks about things more deeply, being called pedantic is unsatisfying. Why? Probably some combination of (a) it feels like a lack of engagement at the same level; (b) possibly a lack of intellectual capability and/or interest in the other party; (c) possibly indicative of a "rougher" personality -- could be merely a more direct style of conversation, but could also be indicative of a lack of awareness of social dynamics. For someone like me interested in vetting conversation partners, all of the former points are useful to gather signal. They are all tentative and subject to revision. But it is useful to recognize when someone else's criticism is likely being driven by aspects _other than_ the content.

I like how you introduced other related concepts; in particular you touched on the idea of being charitable. To try to expound a bit: if someone wants to say that I've _uncharitably_ characterized another position, I think that is worth saying -- doing so is a specific claim that I think works better to advance conversation.

> It's worth noting that the reason I'm recognizing your behavior as pedantic here is that I have received the feedback that I'm prone to being pedantic, and as a result, I've worked very hard to recognize when I am being pedantic. I say this because I hope you'll recognize that I'm giving you feedback which I found helpful to myself and hope will help you, not because I think I'm better than you or I'm trying to hurt you.

I appreciate your intention. First, may I ask what is your meaning of "being pedantic"? I have my own answer at the bottom of this book-sized message. Second, I have a concern that people who are being less thoughtful "brow-beat" those who are being more thoughtful by calling them "pedantic". I see some possibility that you've internalized this brow-beating and now are "passing it along" in the hopes of being helpful. It is helpful to think about, though what I do with it might not be what you expect. :)

I do think there are sensible definitions of "being pedantic", but I'm very reluctant to label someone else's comment as being such.

I think we'd agree: some people don't want to spend the effort in arguing against a comment -- that's fine. Even with your point about causation in mind, I don't see a need or benefit to label the post they disagree with as being _pedantic_. Calling someone's else comment _pedantic_ is rather easy, but offering constructive criticism requires more effort.

Just to explain my semantics, here is the root word of pedantic:

> pedant : a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning: the royal palace (some pedants would say the ex-royal palace).

Keeping this in mind, thinking about your causation point... I think the underlying basis relies on a deeper question; namely, "What level of detail are we trying to explain here?" If one part is only interested in a relatively granular model, they might accuse someone else of being pedantic. But that other person may be seeking a more granular model. My point: rather than calling "pedantic" I think using terminology around "what are we trying to explain?" advances the conversation with minimal risk of slighting the other person.

Lastly, yes, I'm a critical reader of Harris and his guests. I get the impression he puts in a good faith effort to get at deeper truths, though I disagree with some particulars, as informed and reasonable people probably should. Again, I appreciate your comment, thanks!

Re: Doorway effect

#148
post #69

Have you ever walked into a room and found a vampire? No, not the sexy kind, but a foul creature with bony limbs and ashen skin? The kind that snarls as you enter, like a beast about to pounce? The kind that roots you to the spot with its sunken, hypnotic eyes, rendering you unable to flee as you watch the hideous thing uncoil from the shadows? Has your heart started racing though your legs refuse to? Have you felt t…

The wikipedia article reads a lot like it’s from The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy.

Re: Doorway effect

#149
I'd never heard of this effect before but it reminds me of a feature I've aways wanted for ios which is, in order to unlock your phone, you need to type in what you're planning to do (and maybe for how long), so you can refer to that or get notified when your memory inevitably blanks and you get sidetracked.

Re: Doorway effect

#150
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've developed antibodies to the word "pedantic", particularly when one leads with it. It seems that when people use the word, it has a tendency to make discussion harder. How often have you seen someone use the word and the conversation develop further into something interesting? Versus the opposite? You're describing a correlation but haven't established causation. Is the causality: someone using the word "pedant…

I appreciate your response. I'm thinking it over. Here are some thoughts for now... For myself and anyone (like you) who thinks about things more deeply, being called pedantic is unsatisfying. Why? Probably some combination of (a) it feels like a lack of engagement at the same level; (b) possibly a lack of intellectual capability and/or interest in the other party; (c) possibly indicative of a "rougher" personality -…

I'd say that what I meant by "being pedantic" was something like "being unwilling to intuit aspects of what the other person is saying". This requires the other person to put a lot of effort into modifying their communication to clarify details, just so that you don't have to put effort into intuiting details or accept that things might be more vague than you like.

Another form of pedantry is when people insist on a specific definition of the word, when it might be possible to intuit that the other person means something else, even if they aren't using a more common definition of the words. Again, it's requiring a lot of effort from the other person so that you don't have to put in the effort to figure out what they might have meant.

The point is, it's exhausting to talk to someone who is being pedantic, because you have to put in all the effort to be understood while they put in very little effort to understand. That's of course not their intent in most cases--when I relapse into pedantry it's often because I want to be sure I understand the person, not because I want to maliciously exhaust them. But the best intentions don't fix the problem that it makes me hard to talk to.

Of course, the alternative to "being pedantic" is that you're going to intuit some details, and sometimes you'll get them wrong. But that's just a risk of communication: it's impossible to communicate with 100% accuracy.

Trying to communicate with extreme accurately has a lot of cost: it takes a lot of effort. It's not necessary reasonable to expect that effort of the people you want to communicate with. Case in point: I simply don't have time to continue this conversation much farther if I'm going to be expected to write out posts of this length each time to define every little detail of how I'm defining each word I use. That's not a decision I'm making because of any sort of animosity, it's a fact of my current workload.

It goes both ways: there are parts of your post I can't engage with because again, I don't have the time.

And, defining every little detail of everything hits a maximum eventually. You can write in immense detail, but eventually you'll hit the maximum ability of your audience to take it in. There are almost certainly aspects of this post which you are going to miss, simply because I wrote a lot. It's often the case that pedantry is just asking for more clarification than the pedant can actually absorb.

Additionally, there are other solutions to miscommunication than throwing a bunch of up-front effort at communicating. Often when a miscommunication happens because the other person intuited something incorrectly, they'll say something that gives you a chance to correct the miscommunication.

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