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The rise of batteries in six charts

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141–150 of 275 posts

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#141
Batteries are great, but some of those charts look off.

Where are they getting batteries that are 500Wh/kg for commercial applications? Even state of the art NMC cells in the 21700 and 46800 form factors barely scrape at 300Wh/kg, and everything else (LFP) is significantly below that number.

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#142

Take 25% of the money spend on EV batteries and instead spend it on domestic solar panels. I cannot stand the smugness of people who will pay $$,$$$ for a car but won't spend $,$$$ on the thing to make power for that car. Even batteries. The net carbon saved by in-home battery+solar is far more than putting batteries in the family car. The car runs a few hours a day. A total off-grid solar+batteries domestic system s…

Domestic solar isn't as efficient as solar power plants. If we took this 25% and instead built solar farms, we would be farther ahead. Domestic battery power plants do make sense however.

Yes but a solar panel literally feet from the EV it is charging avoids massive transmission infrastructure.

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long haul yes, but it's a little known story that regional airlines are on the edge of disaster because: (1) they can't find pilots, (2) manufacturers have stopped making the 50-seat jets that are the mainstay of that business. Airports like ITH are already at the top of the "regional development problems" in third-tier cities and it is not so clear they're going to be able to have service in 20 years the way things…

...which 50 seat jets are you talking about? At that size I would expect turboprops to be preferred, and turboprops of that size are definitely still being built..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_CRJ700_series

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_ERJ_family

both of which stopped manufacturing circa 2020. We used to get the DASH-8 which I liked to fly more but they stopped using it because it breaks down more often which is no problem if it happens at PHL but takes hours to get a crew to fix if it breaks down at ITH.

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#144
post #67

Regarding price, leading manufacturers are already selling at a price below what was always understood as the point where EVs win in terms of economics: https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2024/01/ev-lfp-battery-price-w... The recent price war in China is a testament to that.

why aren't consumers seeing this price yet?

Why would they?

Companies will gladly pocket the difference between what they charge the customers and their $100/KWh bulk price.

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I am missing your broader point, but the fact that ITH exists and only has scheduled service to New York is a bit ridiculous. That should be a high-speed rail route that takes you from city center to center, if America intends to become a developed nation.

God it's gotten worse. Last time I looked they had flights to PHL and DTW. As it is now there is fierce competition for bus service from Ithaca to NYC (budget to various grades of premium) and I find it almost unimaginable that I'd fly to NYC to get to NYC because flying to JFK or atrocious EWR (never once made a transfer at EWR that didn't involve re-entering the secure zone) wouldn't save time to get to Midtown. If…

You're right I was not thinking of the probable more common use case that a trip originating at ITH is only connecting at JFK and eventually arriving elsewhere. For that traveler a train to Manhattan doesn't work as well.

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my interaction with local utilities/electrical companies, they _hate_ domestic solar. They'll do everything in their power to stonewall you getting them installed and make it seem like a useless/expensive option.

Then ditch the local connection and go with off-grid solar. These days, a totally off-grid solution is sometimes the cheaper option. Panels are cheap. Batteries are cheap. Interest rates are cheap. And no monthly minimums. I'm sitting in a house right now, streaming top gear on a 50-inch tv, completely off-grid.

How are you getting internet? Starlink?

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#147

Chart #2: Top Tier Energy Battery Density vs. Battery Cost. That seems like an odd comparison to me. Is it normal to compare the Top Tier Anything to the Average of another thing? Top Tier Car 0-60 Times vs Average Car Costs? IDK, it doesn't seem to contain any REAL information. Shouldn't the comparison be the costs of the SAME cars and not include cars that aren't top tier? What am I not getting?

Chart 2 definitely seems strange as it appears that batteries are free in 2023

It would be better served by a log scale if they really want to show the pre-2005 numbers in the chart.

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's super cool you can watch California's grid level batteries "breathe" every day here, https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html#sectio... Yesterday we peaked out at 3GW discharging rate, and 4GW charging rate. We are plowing ahead in the transition to utilizing all of our excess solar! We peak at 25GW expected today, so we have a little ways to go but it's incredible how far and how fast they're repla…

Kind of unrelated, but I'm wondering why TX uses so much more electricity than CA. Right now (afternoon of 1/26) happens to be a good time to compare: -- Temperatures are mild throughout most of TX (50s and 60s F); temps in CA are similar, perhaps a bit warmer; -- It's roughly mid-day in both places (3PM TX, 1PM CA); -- TX has a population of ~30M, CA has ~39M ..yet somehow right now TX is consuming ~47GW (per ercot)…

There are a few reasons.

1. TX has more heavy industry than CA.

2. CA has spent decades and billions on energy efficiency improvements.

3. CA prices are higher, which encourages lower demand, and encourages investments in efficiency. TX has lower prices which encourages more demand.

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mention of air travel was strange. I wasn't aware of anyone who thought long range flight would ever be electrified. At least not without some fundamental breakthrough. S-curves are hard to predict. Basically every time someone attempts to do it, they are way off. This [0] is a neat paper that addresses the question. We've blown past every single prediction. [0] https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/files/energy_transition_p…

Can we use excess solar energy to create synthetic fuel (hydrogen?) to power jets? I know almost nothing about this space. I would appreciate a comment on why this is feasible or not...

There are people researching it, I believe Airbus is about to test flying with hydrogen. It's the usual thing though for "green hydrogen", there's not much green hydrogen, there are some testbeds but just like for cars it seems to be mostly extracted from natural gas. You can extract it with any energy source like solar power. There's still the challenge that hydrogen fuel is not very compact, so it's hard to carry enough energy (in a car or plane) for much use, you end up with very very high pressure tanks. I think hydrogen will make sense eventually for trucks, tractors maybe. The question is will the massive investments in improving batteries make hydrogen vehicles obsolete or not.

There are also research programs about making fuel from other sources, like https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016523702...

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's super cool you can watch California's grid level batteries "breathe" every day here, https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html#sectio... Yesterday we peaked out at 3GW discharging rate, and 4GW charging rate. We are plowing ahead in the transition to utilizing all of our excess solar! We peak at 25GW expected today, so we have a little ways to go but it's incredible how far and how fast they're repla…

Kind of unrelated, but I'm wondering why TX uses so much more electricity than CA. Right now (afternoon of 1/26) happens to be a good time to compare: -- Temperatures are mild throughout most of TX (50s and 60s F); temps in CA are similar, perhaps a bit warmer; -- It's roughly mid-day in both places (3PM TX, 1PM CA); -- TX has a population of ~30M, CA has ~39M ..yet somehow right now TX is consuming ~47GW (per ercot)…

California takes a much more european approach to energy efficiency.
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