Mysterious? I thought this is a solved problem. Especially also taking into account the boarders of the Roman Empire and the places where they were found.
Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England
141–150 of 403 posts
Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ancient Roman society was not Medieval Europe, there was very little serfdom, especially among those with any skill whatsoever, so plenty of people moved from place to place, likely dozens or hundreds of times in their lives. There were plenty of captured slaves from conquered peoples, but skilled metalworkers would hardly belong to that group.
The vast majority of people would never have willingly traveled far from their birthplace, in medieval Europe or the Roman Empire. This is especially true for those who had few skills. You could do basic labor in your own village, but how could you leave without any money or support network (e.g., a family)? Why would people trust you elsewhere? The dynamic was probably different in larger cities, of which there were…
The speculation is that there were created by advanced apprentices. What we’d now call “journeymen.” Most people didn’t move around maybe, but I wouldn’t be that surprised to find that they did.
Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
One thing to keep in mind is the geographic distribution of these things. They're mostly found in the province of Gallia and Britain, and not in other regions. There'd be a lot of metalworkers in Rome and the surrounding cities in central and south Italy, but no artifacts like this have been found, and they've found > 100 of them now so the distribution is probably significant.
The cities likely had some form of guild system to prove claims like this. The middle of nowhere you could prove yourself with a standardized piece of work. ___ Though personally I like the "glove grandma" video of her crocheting gloves with the pieces.
The knitting aid is persuasive. It fits with the geography, explains the different hole sizes, and it explains the knobs.
Here's one of those vids; there are many more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76AvV601yJ0
Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England
#144I like the theory that it's an examination piece to qualify as a master metalworker. Casting a flawless dodecahedron could have been a way to demonstrate your skill. The shape is somewhat arbitrary: anything that's both difficult to cast and easy to examine for quality would work, but once people started making dodecahedrons that's what people expected and it became a kind of standard.
Maybe in some 2.000 years digital archeologists will wonder what in the world did we use fizzbuzz for
Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England
#145One theory (albeit contested) is that they were used as a jig to knit gloves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76AvV601yJ0
That's kind of neat, but it looks too complex of an object for that purpose. A knitting spool (aka a jig to knit gloves) can be as simple as wood ring with nails around it. Even though it might work, it looks way too precious for such a common tool. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spool_knitting for pictures
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Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Any metal we find after 2000 years is a miracle. So the amount of these dodecahedrons indicate that there were a lot more in circulation at the time. 2000 years of poor and homeless people looking for any metal they can sell as scrap. That's why I don't buy the apprentice argument that always pops up in these discussions. In this case you'd be excused for saying it's some sort of ritualistic object. Because rituals a…
>Any metal we find after 2000 years is a miracle. That's not really true. There's regular finds of hoards of thousands of ancient coins that are in excellent condition, esp. Roman coins. You'll find there's an actually quite a large number of ancient metal artifacts archaeologists have discovered if you look into it. Certainly the preservation rate is very low since people tend to guard metal objects and recycle them…
Yes. Humans really liked burying things. Burying prized or expensive objects was pretty normal in human history. Layers of dirt only piled on with time. I don't think humans did much Archaeology pre-19th century. There are buckets of ancient coins. I leave this evidence of old metal laying around: "The Horses of Saint Mark, also known as Triumphal Quadriga, 2nd or 3rd century CE, via Basilica di San Marco, Venice"
Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
The vast majority of people would never have willingly traveled far from their birthplace, in medieval Europe or the Roman Empire. This is especially true for those who had few skills. You could do basic labor in your own village, but how could you leave without any money or support network (e.g., a family)? Why would people trust you elsewhere? The dynamic was probably different in larger cities, of which there were…
The speculation is that there were created by advanced apprentices. What we’d now call “journeymen.” Most people didn’t move around maybe, but I wouldn’t be that surprised to find that they did.
They absolutely would have moved around since one of the most common ways to get the apprenticeships was to sign up to help with an army that was mobilizing for war. Militaries needed a lot of blacksmiths to tag along as support and they needed a lot of apprentices for manual labor. When they came back from, they often had a little more choice in where to go back to so they had quite a bit more mobility over all.
Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
That theory works for me. Making a wooden hammer is a typical first project for the hand-tool woodworker — so perhaps the metal smith had a similar hello world. My first thought was that the thing was some kind of "hub" for ropes used perhaps in some tent design. I was imagining rope loops passing through the holes and then looped over a stud on the other side. But the article says there are no signs of wear and so n…
This is no Hello world, this is more like a doctoral thesis I think...
Maybe more like a Professional Engineering license or a medical degree; to show familiarity with the standards of a particular profession.
Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England
#149It's a dog toy. Put treats in it, and the dog will spend hours nudging it around trying to get the tasty treats out :-p
Seriously though, it's obviously for measuring out spaghetti.
Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England
#150I thought it was determined to be a glove finger knitting apparatus.
I don't think knitting existed during the time of Roman Britain.