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Culture Change at Google

social.clawhammer.net

141–150 of 520 posts

Re: Culture Change at Google

#141

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I would argue that they made a really good early bet with Steam which rakes in enough profit that they can keep this (or whatever) mindset. They never really had competition in the PC space. If they would need to come up with new and better products each fiscal year they would look very different.

I feel like you could have said the same about google or facebook. They made a dominant early platform and could have comfortably lived off that success? There are a bunch of companies trying to compete with valve. They are not behind any more of a moat than anyone else.

For some reason steam is really just better than anything else combined. Maybe except gog as it's drm free

Re: Culture Change at Google

#142

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Yes, and there's no good way around this - no human organisation can scale beyond a certain (quite early) point without becoming an immoral profit machine. I wish society would better understand this, and governments would add caps. Of course no one on the world political stage would handicap their economy like this.

This is because, states at some size become immoral power machines deeply distrusting one another.

[deleted]

Re: Culture Change at Google

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and there's no good way around this - no human organisation can scale beyond a certain (quite early) point without becoming an immoral profit machine. I wish society would better understand this, and governments would add caps. Of course no one on the world political stage would handicap their economy like this.

This is because, states at some size become immoral power machines deeply distrusting one another.

This just straight up doesn't make sense to me—states aren't monolithic entities or rational actors. I think it's easier to say that the modern state exists at the behest of capital, at least in the west.

Re: Culture Change at Google

#144
post #42
post #28

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What is the company culture of OpenAI like? How does it compare to early Google?

I didn't see Google's board fire it's CEO and then he gets reinstated and basically fires the board. Instead Google had more drama with the inappropriate behavior kind.

That we know of, at least.

Re: Culture Change at Google

#145
post #5

> Early employees would often encourage each other to "fail fast" as a means to innovation, but that's no longer easy in an environment where failure implies a layoff. Big tech is in a really tough spot when it comes to innovation. Google has developed a reputation for killing off products too easily. Many have commented here and elsewhere that you can’t trust them to invest in using their new products because they m…

> So then what? The answer probably should be that Google should buy up startups that have figured out product-market fit and just need to scale. They can’t do that though because the FTC is already breathing down their neck with anti-trust suits.

And for damn good reason. That kind of behavior quashes competition and encourages that ZIRP era thinking of growth at all costs so you can get acquired before everyone realizes your business model sucks. Maybe they should just focus on their core business so they don’t get buried in the shift to AI.

Re: Culture Change at Google

#146
post #48
post #24

Is any company still like this? I was at Google in ‘06-07, and again ‘09-11, and already there were obvious differences. You just can’t scale “total internal transparency” when the company doubles in size every year. And at some point you need just plain-old-“good” engineers to make the A/B tests happen and all the other stuff that doesn’t excite the PhDs. And at some point you need product people too, because you st…

I wonder if there's a way to prevent the growth at all costs that is demanded by the financial markets. Maybe become profitable and pay off the VCs then don't go public? Then you can resist the pressure for growth quarter by quarter, and remain the 'right size' that your internal culture demands. Did Valve corporation do something like that?

There is actually evidence that the market doesn't demand growth - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=JpB4 suggests that the market is chasing the base rate of monetary creation.

If a company isn't "growing" at ~5% p.a nominal, it isn't tapping into the money hose. What would be the point of owning it?

Re: Culture Change at Google

#147

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What alternatives do you recommend for email? That's my one google service I have difficulty getting away from.

I use Protonmail. Free tier I think, but I pay $10 a month for a bundle that allows custom domains, calendar, VPN, and storage.

You pay $120 per year, not $10 per month.

Re: Culture Change at Google

#148
post #5

> Early employees would often encourage each other to "fail fast" as a means to innovation, but that's no longer easy in an environment where failure implies a layoff. Big tech is in a really tough spot when it comes to innovation. Google has developed a reputation for killing off products too easily. Many have commented here and elsewhere that you can’t trust them to invest in using their new products because they m…

The mistake Google has done here is that it deploys and launches and uses to garner attention projects under it's name. There is little to no, this is an experimental project by x team. It is this is a Google product. If everything is a product and you don't support most or expect most to die, then you damage the collective product that is the Google brand. And as a result how your employees feel and are treated abou…

They do that, this is what their various Labs and subsidiaries and internal accelerators are there for. The issue is that people figure out it's associated with Google and then expect it to be maintained as such.

Re: Culture Change at Google

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure whether you think I'm being unfair to Google or to OpenAI. Everybody and their brother sued Google early on for a huge variety of their products. Google News got sued for showing headlines from news websites. Google Books got sued for copyright violations for, y'know, making a copy of everybody's books. Back in 2007, Google would've been in the middle of the the Viacom vs YouTube lawsuit. The whole idea…

I think the characterization is unfair to generative AI, because the information that is retained in the model is a very lossy and rough generalization of the training data - that situation is a lot less direct than what it's like with search engines. In my mind, the lawsuits against search engines have a lot more ground to stand on. Saying that something "provides access to copyrighted content" almost implies that t…

It's 100% dependent on copyrighted material at least, even though you can't access an exact copy of it without access to the material it wouldn't exist. It's a messy issue, I have no idea how it will be solved since it's a rather new development for humanity, in the past when humans would collect knowledge from different sources to use them in a novel way there would be at least some kind of attribution, recognition of the sources, either being cited or acknowledged in a preface. With GenAI there's nothing, and probably not even a way for GenAI to tell us where it got "inspired" from to generate something.

It's going to be a very messy landscape for copyrights and intellectual property in the next years.

Re: Culture Change at Google

#150
post #113

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I've worked in one big company when something like this actually happened. First week one developer blatantly said to management in-front of the scammer that the scammer (CTO) doesn't know anything about technology and is a complete fraud. The developer got fired 10 minutes later. Others took note to not challenge him if they want to keep their job. That happened ~10 years ago and I am actually grateful for that expe…

> that office politics are 10x more important than merit in big companies My experience (5 startups) is that office politics are 100x more important in small startups. Everything is more concentrated, including the politics. That's why there is so much cofounder drama to go around. At least in a big company there's a lot of inertia and process to tone down the politics a little bit.

Yeah, I agree. Anecdotes like the GP's just show that big companies aren't immune to these problems (and some big companies are better-run than others). These problems can happen at any company. My experience, at both big and small and also medium-size companies, is that smaller companies usually have much less process and procedures, and can vary greatly from one to another. Big companies have evolved procedures and processes to try to mitigate these human problems. So, for instance, you're much more likely to see sexual harassment and discrimination in a smaller company: if the guy who owns the place is cool with it, it'll be the norm there. Huge companies don't get to be huge these days by tolerating that stuff, and they have a lot of money to lose in a lawsuit, so they put a lot of effort into insulating themselves: anti-harassment training for employees, etc.
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