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Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

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Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#141

Post by novok »

aurareturn wrote: post #5
SoftTalker wrote: post #2

Most employees can screw around websurfing or shopping just as well at work as at home. They mostly do it because they are bored. Give them interesting, meaningful work and they will be productive.

>Give them interesting, meaningful work and they will be productive. How much meaningful and interesting work do you think exists in this world? Every time this topic gets brought up, someone will say "Just give people interesting work, pay them well, don't micromanage them!" as if these jobs grow on trees. And even if these jobs do exist, they're usually reserved for workers who are extremely motivated and capable -…

There is a lot of boring and low "meaning" work that needs to be done. To give a trite example, washing your dishes and keeping your house clean. Or brushing your teeth and flossing. Or making revenue dashboards tracking income and making sure that data reporting is accurate.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#142

Post by mjevans »

rebeccaskinner wrote: post #39
ryanSrich wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Managing 50+ remote workers taught me that results matter, not hours. It's all about the output. Work asynchronously, focus on the end goal, and as long as it's legal and ethical, the 'how' and 'when' are often irrelevant. Traditional managers struggle with this mindset, often due to their own managers outdated approaches. The real game changer is axing all scheduled internal meetings. No standups, no weekly grooming…

I started managing a team with the “no meetings, let people do good work” philosophy and I can just say that I’m glad I was given the space as a new manager to find my feet, because I didn’t find that it worked well when taken to an extreme. Remote work offers very little structure. As someone who thrives on autonomy and chafes at process this always felt great to me, but a lot of people thrive with a bit of structur…

The important thing is to identify what the outputs (of meetings etc) should _be_ and then work backwards from that to how to accomplish the task _remotely_ and _asynchronously_.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#143

Post by nikkwong »

randomdata wrote: post #31
nikkwong wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you are wearing some very strong rose colored glasses; I personally think it’s naive to believe that remote workers are always highly engaged. People optimize their work productivity around different personal goals.. and I have worked with many who seem to try to do as little work as possible to not get fired. Which often involves a lot of loathing and procrastination. It would be wonderful for employers…

> and they would kill to do anything else with their time And yet they don't. That is not because they are bored, but because they fear the possible failure.

No; they don’t, because they cannot afford to not.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#144

Post by akira2501 »

jfoutz wrote: post #44
randomdata wrote: post #7

> If remote work boosts productivity in a substantial way, then it should improve productivity performance Not necessarily given the methodology. For example, if remote work allows a worker to do their laundry in parallel where they would be otherwise unable to in an office, their productivity has increased, but the gains would not show up in the study. It observes industry productivity, not work productivity.

Although it is pretty strong evidence office space is a boondoggle. That’s a lot of pointless overhead costs that hurt the bottom line. I like seeing my peers in person. I like hashing things out in person. Apparently that’s a waste of time and money.

> evidence office space is a boondoggle

It's a buggy whip. The internet is still relatively young, it hasn't fully dispatched with last centuries ideas just yet. As has been noted, the investor class failed to predict the consequence of cheap and wide pipes in homes as a matter of course.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#145

Post by robertlagrant »

soco wrote: post #130
ozim wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a bit of a revelation last year - I though most of the time CEO gets shares as compensation then he is tied to the company and in theory should work to make company profit because it is his profit. Seems like for a lot of companies it is not the case but I can see that CEO type of guys can haggle really well and they call the shots as mostly it is companies that need them more than they need the company so t…

A hard disagree on "companies that need them more than they need the company". A headless company can still run, a company-less CEO is nothing. But this is the culture we're in, paying the friends of the board millions regardless of their performance, because the board knows they get their backs rubbed as well.

> A headless company can still run, a company-less CEO is nothing

Can you give an example of a headless company that's running fine?

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#146

Post by sublinear »

safety1st wrote: post #43
randomdata wrote: post #7

> If remote work boosts productivity in a substantial way, then it should improve productivity performance Not necessarily given the methodology. For example, if remote work allows a worker to do their laundry in parallel where they would be otherwise unable to in an office, their productivity has increased, but the gains would not show up in the study. It observes industry productivity, not work productivity.

Sure, but then we're discussing remote work as an employee benefit, which is a different discussion driven by a different part of the company etc. Not as a thing which improves the company's bottom line which is where C suite and shareholders spend the vast majority of their attention. If it doesn't improve job productivity then at the level where decisions get made I can think of two really significant points regard…

B... y'all are massively out of touch of how your business actually works and I hope you all pay dearly for that. You will. I promise. Count your days but I know you'll just go somewhere else and ruin it there too.

Communication counts for something. You might not know much about that because you see businesses as interchangeable balance sheets rather than a living breathing thing. Your loss. Expect your end.

I really do wish you sad lost puppies find a place to park your increasingly worthless "privilege". Your retro career is melting. What you can coast through: running a business from a high-level perspective. What you can't coast through: actually running your business and digging into the implementation details that directly hit your bottom line and keep your worthless ass afloat. All tech companies are pure implementation details. You'd know this if you bothered to and everyone more successful than you actually has because they can take it and aren't as clueless. Growth by absorbing the old ways of doing things doesn't come from nowhere.

Expect the next wave of more literate employees to push you out. Doesn't matter where they come from. They will. It's already happened at the places bigger than you. Prepare.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#147

Post by logan5201 »

randomdata wrote: post #7

> If remote work boosts productivity in a substantial way, then it should improve productivity performance Not necessarily given the methodology. For example, if remote work allows a worker to do their laundry in parallel where they would be otherwise unable to in an office, their productivity has increased, but the gains would not show up in the study. It observes industry productivity, not work productivity.

How is industry productivity not relevant to the point being made? It’s quite possible for there to be a direct correlation between work productivity and industry productivity. You are also discounting many other benefits of remote work. While yes someone may be doing laundry when they should be filling out expense reports, they are also not spending time on a lengthy commute. As a result they are also spending less time at the gas station and for car maintenance bills. I’ll admit I do personal chores on the company’s dime, but the time and resources I save by working remote make up for it at the very least.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#148

Post by rob74 »

CalRobert wrote: post #131
bilekas wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite, you're going to be paying rent for example regardless, you may have to invest in some office furniture which is usually subsidized but if not then consider the savings you would make through the year overall, perhaps transportation costs, lunches etc. Things add up fiscally. Ignoring the lifestyle benefits.

This is nominally true but when I was looking for a place to rent I needed to be sure it had a space for remote work, which made it more expensive. I tried working from a desk in a wide part of my hallway or in my room (shared with my spouse) and it really didn't work. If you have young kids a separate room is pretty much a must, and ideally, a separate structure (like a small backyard office).

Yeah, I guess this aspect is underappreciated here on HN: most "hackers" also hack in their spare time, so probably already have a desk (maybe even a separate room) where they have good working conditions at home.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#149

Post by ChatGTP »

suslik wrote: post #28
goalieca wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some do it to get a break. Doing 40 hours of straight “creative” work is impossible.

A semi-relevant anecdote: over the Christmas break (which was > 2 weeks for me), I was pouring 12-14 hours a day into my personal hobby project and didn’t feel tired or bored at all. I literally couldn’t stop working on it. Now that I’m back at my regular job (which, I must concede, is an amazing job on paper and something I spent a lifetime getting to), I can barely survive the day and have zero energy after 16:00.

I'm the same, I been busting out the pomodor method to help me get through it.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#150

Post by flanked-evergl »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #63
SoftTalker wrote: post #2

Most employees can screw around websurfing or shopping just as well at work as at home. They mostly do it because they are bored. Give them interesting, meaningful work and they will be productive.

Or, give them real equity.

What would this involve? And can't they buy equity with their salaries if they wanted to?
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