Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#141

Post by Vespasian » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:28 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #52

borissk wrote: post #24

That's bad news for the IT jobs market. The big tech companies are firing people - those people will have no problem finding another job, but that's a job taken away from more average folks. Combined with high interest rates, that prevent businesses from starting new projects financed through credit. Also ChatGPT and other AIs increasing developers, artists, etc. productivity - so fewer people can do as much work. Pr…

IT salaries are high mostly because the people who can do the job well can also do other jobs well, so if salaries go down then people change careers. For example, most people who can do IT could also become an electrician, for which the demand is currently high. > Also ChatGPT and other AIs increasing developers, artists, etc. productivity - so fewer people can do as much work. This is the sort of thing that increas…

II'm fairly certain I could learn the theorethical, physical background required to be an electrician pretty quick but that leaves me with precisely zero practical experience of actually pulling cables or building a switchboard without killing myself/others and/or buring down the building.

Besides, im my country a formal education (2-3 years) including an apprenticeship is required by law to practice the trait.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#142

Post by RedShift1 » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:30 AM UTC

sinuhe69 wrote: post #127

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

Indoctrinated that unions are communism and/or result in worse working conditions and wages.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#143

Post by KeplerBoy » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:30 AM UTC

taopai wrote: post #122

hasty_pudding wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's going to be no tech jobs in America is what's going to happen. That's where this is headed.

Why? You think they'll outsource work to foreign countries?

Why would they continue to hire in the most expensive labor market?

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#144

Post by pknomad » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:30 AM UTC

unsupp0rted wrote: post #82

nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

I find it shocking that this is news to anybody, or that this has ever (in the last n generations) not been the case. Your advice is sound: exchange your expertise for money, invest the money, leave.

The information is not new but then there's actually internalizing that information and changing your views.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#145

Post by teitoklien » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:30 AM UTC

sinuhe69 wrote: post #127

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

You add unions in tech, and then wonder why dev salaries in EU and the UK are so abysmally low.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#146

Post by Mashimo » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:31 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #52

borissk wrote: post #24

That's bad news for the IT jobs market. The big tech companies are firing people - those people will have no problem finding another job, but that's a job taken away from more average folks. Combined with high interest rates, that prevent businesses from starting new projects financed through credit. Also ChatGPT and other AIs increasing developers, artists, etc. productivity - so fewer people can do as much work. Pr…

IT salaries are high mostly because the people who can do the job well can also do other jobs well, so if salaries go down then people change careers. For example, most people who can do IT could also become an electrician, for which the demand is currently high. > Also ChatGPT and other AIs increasing developers, artists, etc. productivity - so fewer people can do as much work. This is the sort of thing that increas…

At least where I live it takes ~4 - 5 years education to become an electrician.

Do you know people who switched from IT to electrician because their salary got lower?

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#147

Post by bhawks » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:31 AM UTC

azangru wrote: post #117

nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

> You can be somewhere for 10 years Our organization has a policy that it hires developers on 3-year contracts, and renews them no more than two times. So when you have reached 9 years in the org; when you have become intimately familiar with the domain, and the codebase, and the way the org works etc., you are out. I am still incredulous that someone has thought that yes, this is exactly how an organization should m…

So you're leaving them right?

Why work for someone who clearly doesn't align with your professional values?

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#148

Post by billy99k » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:31 AM UTC

taopai wrote: post #122

hasty_pudding wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's going to be no tech jobs in America is what's going to happen. That's where this is headed.

Why? You think they'll outsource work to foreign countries?

They have already started outsourcing to Canada at 60% of the cost.

One of my clients outsources all large projects to a company in Ukraine (The HQ is there, but the developers are in other parts of Europe). The time zone isn't too bad, their English/communication is nearly perfect, and it's at a fraction of the cost here in the US.

A large year-long project that I was the tech lead on that involved moving our legacy systems to a brand-new system (this includes all of the coding, etc) cost the company around $90,000. There were 10 devs on staff.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#149

Post by DrBazza » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:32 AM UTC

qaq wrote: post #107

Someone should start an massive incubator that takes in top laid off employees and gives them resources to build a competing product. They will be motivated as hell and have a ton of domain knowledge and generally have a good idea on how to do things in way more efficient way than what their former employer did. For kicks and to save money replace most of mngmnt roles with AI model.

There are often non-compete clauses in employment contracts. Depending on the country, they're not worth the paper they're written on sometimes. In others, legally binding.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#150

Post by code51 » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 10:32 AM UTC

sinuhe69 wrote: post #127

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

Most probably because they think unions would standardize salaries and eliminate outlier FAANG compensation packages. Everybody thinks they are special and would get that outlier compensation after all. An idea which is not so battle-tested as we see.