Is my plane a 737 MAX? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#141

Post by j-bos » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 6:09 PM UTC

bostonsre wrote: post #62

Sirizarry wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What isn’t significant about Boeing consistently failing in the construction and quality of the 737 MAX? How does comparing it to driving to the airport prove anything? Scratch that, it proves nothing. What are you getting at?

Maybe that it would be interesting to know what the numbers actually are. There is the common saying that you are more likely to get in an accident on the way to the airport than traveling on the plane, but knowing what the likelihood of both of those as well as the likelihood of an accident on a max could show this all to be hysteria or actually well founded.

Voting with wallets to counter negative trend in an industry made safe by regulations written in blood, seems more reasonable than hysterical.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#142

Post by dylan604 » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 6:09 PM UTC

frakt0x90 wrote: post #124

diggan wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But at that point it's too late. I doubt people are that afraid of 737 Max that they'll cancel a flight (and forfeit their ticket) over it. Luckily the airlines I travel with only use Airbus, but if they were using 737 Max, I'd definitely book tickets that I can change at the last minute, and refuse to board if it turns out to be a 737 Max. Yes, that's probably illogical. And probably much of life is illogical. But…

Except according to the top comment, "A lot of people don't realize that the fuselage of this plane isn't even made by Boeing, it's made by Spirit AeroSystems which also makes components for Airbus. We don't really know who to blame here until the investigation concludes." So I guess you just shouldn't fly.

Except Airbus doesn't have planes falling apart in midair even if they are using the same supplier. This is clearly an issue during assembly regardless of the supplier of the parts.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#143

Post by diggan » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 6:09 PM UTC

frakt0x90 wrote: post #124

diggan wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But at that point it's too late. I doubt people are that afraid of 737 Max that they'll cancel a flight (and forfeit their ticket) over it. Luckily the airlines I travel with only use Airbus, but if they were using 737 Max, I'd definitely book tickets that I can change at the last minute, and refuse to board if it turns out to be a 737 Max. Yes, that's probably illogical. And probably much of life is illogical. But…

Except according to the top comment, "A lot of people don't realize that the fuselage of this plane isn't even made by Boeing, it's made by Spirit AeroSystems which also makes components for Airbus. We don't really know who to blame here until the investigation concludes." So I guess you just shouldn't fly.

The blame could be with a single individual, a group of people, the politics at Boeing or the engineering at AeroSystems.

The point is that none of the Airbus planes had the same sort of in-flight extreme ventilation as the Boeing plane just had, nor are any entire series of airplanes from Airbus currently grounded because of lose bolts.

As I said, it's not logical, it's not based on reason nor numbers. It's just a feeling.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#144

Post by BizarreByte » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 6:09 PM UTC

flashback2199 wrote: post #114

stouset wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> safety is getting worse, not better or even staying the same The only death in US major commercial aviation in ages was when a woman was partially sucked out of a window in 2018 when an engine failed and blew apart, breaking the window open. Before that, we have the Asiana flight which crashed after landing short at SFO, striking the undercarriage on the edge of the floating platform and cartwheeling. Everyone surv…

The only reason nobody was injured this time was nobody was sitting in the seats next to the door plug that blew off. The seat was destroyed.

You're missing his point entirely. People are trying to make flying out as getting more dangerous, but that's factually incorrect.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#145

Post by adrr » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 6:09 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #77

A lot of people don't realize that the fuselage of this plane isn't even made by Boeing, it's made by Spirit AeroSystems which also makes components for Airbus. We don't really know who to blame here until the investigation concludes.

Who is response for the QA of components and workmanship? It looks like its was loose bolts from information released from United Airlines and there was a notice to check for loose bolts on the Max.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#146

Post by omikun » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 6:09 PM UTC

jmward01 wrote: post #112

xahrepap wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard a lot of people say this in these comment threads, and I think this glosses over the actual issue: safety is getting worse, not better or even staying the same. So it's MORE statistically significant than it was. The trend is heading the wrong way. Air safety going down is a trend you want to stop ASAP. Not wait around until it's just as dangerous as something else like driving your car.

That is a big statement. Since 2019 there have been 32 fatalities connected to commercial aircraft. Most of those were iv very small aircraft like seaplanes and helicopters. 32 deaths in 4 years compared to ~40k/year in cars. We need to keep things in perspective.

To keep things in perspective we should compare fatalities per person trips or person miles. Total deaths doesn't mean as much when a lot more people travel by car.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#147

Post by JumpCrisscross » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 6:09 PM UTC

flashback2199 wrote: post #114

stouset wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> safety is getting worse, not better or even staying the same The only death in US major commercial aviation in ages was when a woman was partially sucked out of a window in 2018 when an engine failed and blew apart, breaking the window open. Before that, we have the Asiana flight which crashed after landing short at SFO, striking the undercarriage on the edge of the floating platform and cartwheeling. Everyone surv…

The only reason nobody was injured this time was nobody was sitting in the seats next to the door plug that blew off. The seat was destroyed.

> only reason nobody was injured this time was nobody was sitting in the seats next to the door plug

This was a serious fuck-up. But it remains that there was at risk no more than one, maybe two, fatalities. That isn’t enough to justify the claim that “safety is getting worse.”

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#148

Post by thomastjeffery » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 6:09 PM UTC

stouset wrote: post #96

xahrepap wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard a lot of people say this in these comment threads, and I think this glosses over the actual issue: safety is getting worse, not better or even staying the same. So it's MORE statistically significant than it was. The trend is heading the wrong way. Air safety going down is a trend you want to stop ASAP. Not wait around until it's just as dangerous as something else like driving your car.

> safety is getting worse, not better or even staying the same The only death in US major commercial aviation in ages was when a woman was partially sucked out of a window in 2018 when an engine failed and blew apart, breaking the window open. Before that, we have the Asiana flight which crashed after landing short at SFO, striking the undercarriage on the edge of the floating platform and cartwheeling. Everyone surv…

Being American isn't equivalent to safety. It was an Alaskan flight that lost its door last week.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#149

Post by Rebelgecko » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 6:10 PM UTC

kreeben wrote: post #120

kube-system wrote: post #77

A lot of people don't realize that the fuselage of this plane isn't even made by Boeing, it's made by Spirit AeroSystems which also makes components for Airbus. We don't really know who to blame here until the investigation concludes.

I realized it months ago, years even and then I remembered an insight from decades ago. Boeing bad, mkay. Always has been.

Coincidentally, decades ago Spirit Aerosystems was still just the "Boeing Wichita division"

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#150

Post by Eji1700 » Tue, Jan 09, 2024, 6:10 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #88

JamesLeonis wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a recent blowout of a door, and now several problems were found in subsequent MAX planes. This is part of a larger saga with faults found in MAX planes that have caused some crashes, and the longstanding quality issues with Boeing. Some previous discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38917820 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38893909 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38889774

Yes, but those parts in question exist only on the MAX 9, which is no longer flying. Right now the answer to: "Is my plane a 737 MAX 9?" is "no, it isn't"

When a plane crashes, twice, totaling 300+ dead, people are right to get skeptical.

When the investigation into those crashes reveals a shitload of corner cutting on safety regs, people are right to get skeptical.

When another version of the same plane made by the same company has an in flight blowout and the fleet is grounded AGAIN (yes i know just the 9s but remind me how many other companies have had entire lines of their plane grounded in the last 20 years), then yes I think it's reasonable to want to avoid any of their newer plane models as clearly the level of safety and quality appears to be declining.

Flying is still safer than just about any other form of travel, but that's basically because we mandated a shit ton of regulations and safety to make sure that even penny pinching corner cutting corps wouldn't have people dying in droves. Boeing has clearly decided to push that envelope and they deserve all the bad press they get for it and I fully understand people who already have a quasi irrational fear of flying freaking the hell out over this.

I would certainly not buy a car from a company that's clearly disregarded safety so badly, and would prefer avoiding being in one for any other reason (friends/rideshare/whatever).