Earlier quoted context omitted.
“there’s a power in the union..”
Yes, there is a power in a union and it’s about time we unionize and unite SWE before AI takes our rights and jobs.
Which right is AI going to take from us?
IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
141–150 of 592 posts
Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m okay with my fellow citizens being selfish and protecting their livelihood. No one else will. “Whose interests?” You’re advocating for shareholder returns (labor arb savings->profits). Ain’t nobody coming to save us. If we can mandate EV batteries be built in the US to get subsidies (Inflation Reduction Act), other protectionism mechanisms should be on the table. Otherwise, businesses will do their best to maximi…
I appreciate you telling me what I'm advocating for. Any basic macroeconomics class covers the effects of protectionism. Yes, in the short term wages may be artificially propped up, industries may be (temporarily) saved, but you do long-term damage to the economy, and the people are better off with free, open markets long term.
> but you do long-term damage to the economy, and the people are better off with free, open markets long term.
The evidence does not show the American worker being better off after these policies you support were enacted and have had decades to run. Free trade is great for shareholders and some consumer cohorts who get excess utility, but terrible for workers. “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
https://www.epi.org/publication/briefingpapers_bp147/
https://www.epi.org/publication/botched-policy-responses-to-...
https://www.epi.org/press/globalization-lowered-wages-americ...
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/09/459087477...
Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
The downside is for people disabled. Maybe they aren't a terrible dev but they aren't a great dev either. If they're on par with outsourced labor, they aren't so safe. But what else can they do? If I lost my job right now, I'd be totally fucked. I'd end up working at Walmart. Masters degrees might as well be toilet paper.
I remember driving through West Virginia with my parents to visit family as a kid, and my dad was lamenting the fact that its full of the haves and the have nots, with the distinct implication that the haves did something wrong to end up there, and the have nots would be just fine if it wasn't for those pesky rich people. I was just left thinking that if life was haves and have nots, shouldn't you spend your time try…
Just in general, what do you think an alternate job would be for an ex-dev (without spending 10s of thousands on reschooling)?
Seems like retail, warehouses, and other unskilled labor are the main options. Even something like teaching would require a certification.
Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#144Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
Will I need to go to college for a few years to get this theoretical new job? Will my health insurance be covered if I do? As ever, I'm glad I never wanted children because just keeping my own ass sheltered, fed, and well(ish) is hard enough.
Maybe? Probably? It sounds like your problem is less with your specific job being obsoleted (or made less lucrative to you) by AI and more with just having to work in the first place. I can't really help with that.
Well, I do have a crippling illness that results in some disability, so being able to work (and especially to keep my health insurance) is indeed a significant concern of mine.
Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#146Everyone is talking about layoffs and lack of hiring, but I've found the problem to be that companies are cutting costs by silently increasing workload on existing employees. Everyone is getting burnt out trying to keep a 300-person engineering team running on only 100 head count. That leads to more incidents, slower delivery, less innovation, longer hours. Even those who are still employed are seeing working conditi…
To me it looks like tech is just falling more in line with other industries pay/workload. I think there are many who joined the tech workforce during the pandemic thinking the norm was to make $135k while doing 10 hours of real work a week from home, twiddling a few lines of bootcamp level javascript to appease your largely absent boss. Many may forget, or not have been there, but 10-15 years ago tech jobs were notor…
I am dumbfounded this idea gets trotted around HN so freely. I’ve met nobody like this in the industry. Most people I know are burnt out from many years of having to work over 40 hours.
Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#147Since a lot of quite large corporations had big layoffs, does this mean the jobs shifted from the big corporations to the smaller ones, or is that too simple?
Usually that’s the case but a lot of the smaller startups no longer have VC money coming in so they aren’t hiring much either.
Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#148So if talent is cheap and we have many smart people unemployed why don’t we get organized and experiment on startup ideas we always wanted to build?
Because it coincides with there being no VC money and it’s hard to build something without funding.
Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
IT is one of the easiest to off-shore; how would a union help?
How does an offshore employee set up a new workstation for a tech illiterate employee?
Those guys and gals get paid $25, 30/hr.
This is like asking how are they going to offshore McDonalds workers when discussing moving steel production overseas.
Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same. My "team" is doubling in size, but all the hires are international.
It’s time we unionize as software developers. You saw what the UAW achieved, Software Engineering needs the same type of protections
How would unionizing help stop a company from setting up an offshore subsidiary? It may prevent layoffs in the short term - but even with big3 auto manufacturers it hasn’t prevented a move in manufacturing to Mexico and Canada.
I think the solution here has to come from the federal government to explicitly increase sw development employment in the US. Just like we find ourselves in a bad place with scaling chip manufacturing, we will find ourselves hamstrung in sw dev.
I doubt unions can help here - except maybe pressure the government (and that too works mostly on democrats if at all).