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Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

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Re: Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

#141

Post by DanI-S »

donw wrote: post #86
sgentle wrote: post #40

To me, what would be interesting about a world without cars (or even with cars, but vastly more attractive public transport) is that it would partly reverse a sad isolationist trend that's come along with the power and control given to us by modern technology. I used to catch a bus every day through the city, and there were a lot of strange people on those trips. Gangs of 9 year old gangster kids drunk up the back. L…

You've done a great job of summing up one of the reasons that public transit in the US is as bad as it is. My goal is to safely get from Point A to Point B, and I don't want to spend a lot of time waiting around at Point A, or sitting and waiting on the way to Point B. We have three goals here, in order of importance. Let's call them safety, convenience, and speed. Taking a bus with a bunch of drunken hooligans doesn…

> high crime rates on public transportation in the US speak for themselves.

This isn't because riding on a shared, public vehicle turns people into hooligans. If you catch public transport in the US, you see a cross-section of people who are too young, old, poor or mentally ill to own a car. Naturally, there will be more crime.

Re: Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

#142

Post by burgerbrain »

benjiweber wrote: post #132
burgerbrain wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If more work places had showers, that might be a workable solution. Also: "I drive 40 minutes each way " 1hr20min of driving is not going to translate into 1hr30min of biking, with the only possible exception being if you spent the entire car ride in gridlock or parking lots. And: "I couldn't find a job here, but I could find a job there". That you can find a job within 20 miles does not help him. "You are supposed t…

People who don't cycle much often think showers are necessary. In reality once you get fit you don't sweat much (I get far sweatier on the tube than cycling), and if you're overheating you can always slow down slightly. * Shower before leaving then you get rid of the dirt + bacteria that makes the sweat smell. * Wear clean lycra - this wicks sweat away before it has a chance to start smelling. In London my cycling co…

I bike regularly and trust me, these sorts of things vary a good deal between people. In my overly warm 70F office I feel like I need a shower halfway through the day anyway. There is no way in hell I'd bike for an hour or more before that. 45 minutes is my cutoff.

And major cities are major outliers in cycle commuting.

Re: Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

#143

Post by replax »

nvoorhies wrote: post #131
greggman wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't expect to ever see safe public transportation in the USA in my lifetime. Our culture sucks. Japan works partly because like many other cultures in that area it's a community comes before the individual culture. We've put up with crime for so long in the USA we've forgotten places actually exist without most of it. We've gotten so used to it we think it's normal to "avoid dark alleys" to "pull out your car ste…

Avoiding dark alleys is certainly normal advice in Japan as well. http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201112/13/73/b0015373_19495370.jp...

While it is officially advised, as many things in japan are, they are by no means mandatory. In japan you might just as well see a sign saying "don't go out in the rain, it's dangerous".

in japan, i've been to plenty of dark alleys during night time, visibly carrying cameras etc. and i've yet to be encounter anything bad. i think it is fairly safe to say, that japan is a LOT saver than most parts of the world.

Re: Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

#144

Post by replax »

donw wrote: post #86
sgentle wrote: post #40

To me, what would be interesting about a world without cars (or even with cars, but vastly more attractive public transport) is that it would partly reverse a sad isolationist trend that's come along with the power and control given to us by modern technology. I used to catch a bus every day through the city, and there were a lot of strange people on those trips. Gangs of 9 year old gangster kids drunk up the back. L…

You've done a great job of summing up one of the reasons that public transit in the US is as bad as it is. My goal is to safely get from Point A to Point B, and I don't want to spend a lot of time waiting around at Point A, or sitting and waiting on the way to Point B. We have three goals here, in order of importance. Let's call them safety, convenience, and speed. Taking a bus with a bunch of drunken hooligans doesn…

The thing which would really annoy me about having to use a car everyday and, in total, spending a considerable time of my life driving it, is that you're doing just that, driving.

On public transport, you can read the news, write mails, write docs, read a book, do other things as you please, while still arriving at the location you want to go to, albeit probably a little slower (as you have to wait for the train/bus/tram and possibly have to walk to/from the station etc.).

I have never been to the US, so i cannot comment on the comparative part, though.

Re: Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

#145

Post by speleding »

The article claims "Silicon Valley, with all its wealth, intellectual resources, creative thinkers, and alleged determination to change the world for the better, has to lead the charge on all these fronts".

So far, most of the innovations in transport, be it high speed railroads, autobahns or moon missions, have all been done by government. That's simply because it's very hard to build a viable commercial model around infrastructure projects, especially if you expect to see a return within 50 years. If someone does find a way that would be great, of course, and in that case there's a good chance this person would from Silicon Valley.

Re: Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

#146

Post by bunderbunder »

oconnore wrote: post #43
api wrote: post #15

It's always important to consider the dark side. We didn't do much of that when we built car culture in the first place, so let's do it now. So try: "Let's build an unaffordable future where the super-rich live in hyper-inflated city real estate and the poor are consigned to unreachable rural pockets of cultural stagnation or to over-crowded ghettoes." How will we create livable walkable cities where real estate does…

Livable, walkable, affordable cities are dense. That is the primary factor in whether or not you can afford to live within walking/biking/subway distance. The rich people that want to live close to work are going to get first dibs on usable housing, and unless you build more than that, middle class residents don't stand a chance. So much of that "hyper inflated city real estate" is not especially dense. So you get lo…

In the vast majority of Chicago, buildings are generally no more than 4 stories tall. Usually just 2 or 3. And yet when I lived there, I found it to be infinitely livable and walkable.

The trick is strong community areas. Chicago reached its current level of density 100 years ago, when walking was a common mode of transportation. So the city naturally organized such that every neighborhood has its own "downtown" area, and every residence is within walking distance of such an area.

The primary function of the bus and trains system is to move people among these community areas. For example, I worked downtown in the Loop, so I took the train. But grocery shopping, going to the library, post office, hardware store, etc. were all easily done on foot. All this in an area where everyone lived in beautiful, historic 2-3 floor buildings.

And no, we weren't rich. It was largely a blue collar immigrant neighborhood.

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