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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#141

Post by incrudible »

Scubabear68 wrote: post #91

I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

The question is, what is so special about the Israeli/Palestine conflict that leads to these outsized protests? I do not recollect a similar response to the treatment of ISIS or the war in Yemen, even though both had the unconditional support of the US war machine. Even if the left could be absolved of antisemitism, the resistance groups it is aligning itself with clearly can not.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#142

Post by ok123456 »

rushingcreek wrote: post #66
beltsazar wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on "Israeli what". Anti Israeli government: It's not antisemitic. Anti Israeli people: It's antisemitic.

It’s more complicated than that. Criticizing Israeli settlements in the West Bank is not antisemitic. But suggesting that Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state is antisemitic as it implies ethnic cleansing. Both are arguably criticisms of the Israeli government.

Why should we in the West support a religious ethnostate? No government has the divine right to exist. Governments succeed or fail by the will of those who live there.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#143

Post by bluish29 »

rushingcreek wrote: post #66
beltsazar wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on "Israeli what". Anti Israeli government: It's not antisemitic. Anti Israeli people: It's antisemitic.

It’s more complicated than that. Criticizing Israeli settlements in the West Bank is not antisemitic. But suggesting that Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state is antisemitic as it implies ethnic cleansing. Both are arguably criticisms of the Israeli government.

It is interesting that the widespread view of isreali people that Palestinians doesn't have right to have a state is not viewed as bad as the other way around. Ironically it can be called antisemitism too. Because they are Semitic too [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#144

Post by pphysch »

Boogie_Man wrote: post #38

This article, more than making me feel one way or another about the particular issue at hand (Isreal Hamas) makes me speculate what other unknown, better coordinated, better funded, interest groups might be doing this sort of thing on a massive scale. I'm reminded of the "Come out - we have you surrounded" meme where the mentally insane man is hiding behind a desk with a shotgun screaming "Get out of my head" or "I h…

I don't think there is a more potent example right now than the Israel Lobby.

The Holocaust and Hitler basically define modern Western morality, and Zionism's claims to legitimacy are closely related to those concepts. Associating someone with "Hitler" or "antisemitic" is worse than calling them "bin Laden" or "slavemaster".

Other popular foreign lobbies in Washington, from Ukrainian, Taiwanese, Kurds, Uyghurs, don't have nearly the same influence.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#145

Post by dml2135 »

rushingcreek wrote: post #66
beltsazar wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on "Israeli what". Anti Israeli government: It's not antisemitic. Anti Israeli people: It's antisemitic.

It’s more complicated than that. Criticizing Israeli settlements in the West Bank is not antisemitic. But suggesting that Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state is antisemitic as it implies ethnic cleansing. Both are arguably criticisms of the Israeli government.

Why is saying Israeli should not be a Jewish state any different than saying the US should not be a Christian state?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#146

Post by tdeck »

rcpt wrote: post #110
mytailorisrich wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The pro Israel side calls for the destruction of Palestine and genocide of it's people regularly. https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1711865833121521939

Also https://twitter.com/theIMEU/status/1613971554412695553

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#147

Post by willis936 »

ristlane wrote: post #127
Scubabear68 wrote: post #91

I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

[flagged]

Then what is holding Israel to a lower standard to other nations a sign of?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#148

Post by azinman2 »

bluefishinit wrote: post #89
azinman2 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And where do you think that comes from? Some coherent well researched culturally deep understanding of history and the current status of things by the entire population? Of course not, it’s propaganda. There are ethnic conflicts worldwide that often have more bloodshed, many occurring simultaneously right now, but this gets all the rhetoric and attention.

If you watch some of the content in question you’ll see that it actually is often in-depth analysis of history done by younger people. I’ve seen many clips discussing Nakba and the right of return for instance.

To understand today you need thousands of years of history, both to understand where the Palestinian people came from (other empires moving them around) as well as the Israeli claims of nativism. Then layer on larger subtexts of the history of Jews and genocide/persecution, the refusal of refugees during WWII, the losing side of the Arabs in WWII, the roles of France/UK in the Middle East, on top of the roles of the Egyptians/Jordanians/Ottoman Empire, Roman Empire, etc etc etc etc etc etc.

I seriously doubt these videos are actually “in depth” in the require way if they simply start 70 years. I’ve also seen many videos myself and there’s zero depth and pure one sidedness, much of the pro-Palestinian content predicated on a dismissal of Zionism as racist but hypocritically an acceptance of all other 1st nation claims as well as the tactic acceptance of Hamas with its theocratic & genocidal goals.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#149

Post by foota »

flyinglizard wrote: post #100
Animats wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AIPAC is the American-Israel Political Action Committee. "The largest pro-Israel PAC in America", their web site says. They are, quite openly, a lobby for Israel's interests in the US.

[flagged]

This may not mean what you think it means. From wikipedia:

"they were acting "at the order, request, or under the direction or control, of a foreign principal" and proved that the alleged foreign agent engaged "in political activities for or in the interests of such foreign principal," including by "represent[ing] the interests of such foreign principal before any agency or official of the Government of the United States."[31]"

You just have to be working for another government in a political way in the US to be a foreign agent.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#150

Post by ristlane »

pazimzadeh wrote: post #60
everybodyknows wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did he say? Nothing new on his home page.

he tweeted a while back the number of palestinian vs israeli children who have died since october 7 there were way more palestinian children who had died, and some didn't like that being broadcast

Nobody wins in a conflict like this. If Hamas is defeated, and their successors don’t launch missiles at Israel, then there will be peace. Judging by past examples, those who strive peacefully for social justice have been the most successful in attaining it.
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