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Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

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Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#141

Post by inferiorhuman »

petemir wrote: post #127
inferiorhuman wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did they have access to those internal IP scores? When I was doing DMARC stuff professionally, plenty of big names were willing to send DMARC reports our way. Microsoft was the only company to give us full text.

Well, you can (and should!) set up your DMARC preferences through your DNS records and enable a mailbox to receive those reports, which you can then use to verify if you have any/some problems with particular providers. This is totally free and standard. But the score I am speaking of was something different: it was the reputation assigned by Microsoft (i.e., something internal) to the IPs from which we sent e-mails.…

Right. We were a third party to all of that, so I meant full text messages for Microsoft's customers. Even Facebook didn't do that.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#142

Post by quags »

apeters wrote: post #91

Hey, mailcow founder here! That’s one of the reasons I stopped working on hosted mail. It has not turned to anything better with big companies putting their hands over it. It’s more controlled now but the same crap as before, just as dangerous and a bit more expensive. Currently working on a system with as much control as possible but piggybacking existing providers' transports.

Love mailcow I moved off exchange to mailcow. I’ve used email for I guess 30 years now and every year it’s less reliable. My kids do not use email at all , they are on the internet with out actually using email. Sure they have a google account for YouTube but their services tend to allow a sign up with out an email. I can see a future where it continues to be less of a thing and turn into something held on by older people.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#143

Post by ale42 »

account42 wrote: post #112
ale42 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really true. Many spams (at least in the past) used to include unsubscribe link, either for faked-legal-compliance, to give some illusion of legitimacy of the mail/originating company to the recipient, and/or to track who is actually receiving them. But if you landed in a mailing list, there are quite high changes that the unsubscribe link is legit.

> But if you landed in a mailing list, there are quite high changes that the unsubscribe link is legit. "Legit" in that it will unsubscribe you from that exact list but not the 100 others they added you to at the same time.

Totally true, but sometimes people just want to unsubscribe to a mailing list they got in because they forgot to uncheck the box "send me promotions" when buying something online, or maybe they even signed up on purpose in the past. Still, some of these just mark the mails as spam not to get them any more.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#144

Post by ale42 »

nottorp wrote: post #109
ale42 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really true. Many spams (at least in the past) used to include unsubscribe link, either for faked-legal-compliance, to give some illusion of legitimacy of the mail/originating company to the recipient, and/or to track who is actually receiving them. But if you landed in a mailing list, there are quite high changes that the unsubscribe link is legit.

The unsubscribe link is legit, but how did I end up on the list? I've never ever signed up for something with the goal of receiving marketing emails. I've never given explicit permission to receive marketing emails. So if you send me a marketing email, it's spam because I didn't ask for it. It may be legal but that doesn't impress me.

If you ended up on the list without signing up, well I wouldn't blame you to click the "Report spam" button, because that's what it is.

But I'm pretty sure that some people who actually signed up on purpose to be on some mailing list just click the spam button not to see them any more, because they are not any more interested, or for whatever other reason.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#145

Post by zahllos »

sbuk wrote: post #117
zahllos wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outlook are a pain. If you don't regularly send email to outlook.com they forget your IP and start responding with 550s. I have a daily message sent out from my server to a test account at outlook.com for two reasons: to try to work around this behaviour and to know immediately when there is a delivery issue.

> Outlook are a pain. If you don't regularly send email to outlook.com they forget your IP and start responding with 550s. All providers should be doing that. Most will remove IPs/domains after 90-120 days.

Disagree. They can do what they want with the email once it is in their queue but bouncing 'unknown' IPs is an extreme choice especially when they have SPF/dkim/dmarc/mta-sts/... all set up, and are not on any spam lists, and are hosted in a reputable data centre.

SMTP 550 means the email bounces. The sender knows but unless they're also the admin they can't do anything about it. The recipient knows nothing. In the most recent case that happened to me, it happened when I sent a reply to an @outlook I had just received a message from (and was regularly receiving emails from, but only rarely needed to reply).

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#146

Post by nottorp »

ale42 wrote: post #144
nottorp wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unsubscribe link is legit, but how did I end up on the list? I've never ever signed up for something with the goal of receiving marketing emails. I've never given explicit permission to receive marketing emails. So if you send me a marketing email, it's spam because I didn't ask for it. It may be legal but that doesn't impress me.

If you ended up on the list without signing up, well I wouldn't blame you to click the "Report spam" button, because that's what it is. But I'm pretty sure that some people who actually signed up on purpose to be on some mailing list just click the spam button not to see them any more, because they are not any more interested, or for whatever other reason.

That's probably 1% of 1%. The rest is opt out instead of opt in and dark patterns.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#147

Post by billpg »

Good. That's half way to my ideal way to deal with email.

1. Emails from everyone (including you) go into the spam folder. 2. I identify senders I do actually want to receive messages from.

The industry isn't doing item 2 very well, but default-deny for new senders is exactly what I want from a mailbox service.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#149

Post by literalAardvark »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #8
literalAardvark wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assume any provider that allows you to send email also allows a great deal of spam, so this might not be unwarranted. My provider is also frequently blacklisted, I just don't use it to send mail anymore.

What the original poster describes is anti-competitive behavior, for this reason alone the idea of blocking the whole IP range of a competing email service provider is very bad. Personally, I wouldn't use an email provider that blocks spam server-side without an option to turn this off because these filters often block legitimate mails and can cause all kinds of annoying problems.

Kind of, but parent poster was talking about his own small server, which is likely hosted on a residential IP pool that's pretty much guaranteed to be blocked all the time.

All mail providers mass block IPs, because the spam from some ISPs is literally too much to even filter.

I run a few high volume (very legitimate) servers and it's been a huge pain in the butt to keep them off of blacklists, but at the same time we've also had spammer problems and I totally get it.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#150

Post by apeters »

quags wrote: post #142
apeters wrote: post #91

Hey, mailcow founder here! That’s one of the reasons I stopped working on hosted mail. It has not turned to anything better with big companies putting their hands over it. It’s more controlled now but the same crap as before, just as dangerous and a bit more expensive. Currently working on a system with as much control as possible but piggybacking existing providers' transports.

Love mailcow I moved off exchange to mailcow. I’ve used email for I guess 30 years now and every year it’s less reliable. My kids do not use email at all , they are on the internet with out actually using email. Sure they have a google account for YouTube but their services tend to allow a sign up with out an email. I can see a future where it continues to be less of a thing and turn into something held on by older p…

Thanks for your comment! :)

Nice to see you like(d) it.

Yes, sadly it gets worse, perhaps not even in bad faith but by trying to fix it.

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