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Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

timeuse.barcelona

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Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#141

Post by zozbot234 »

highmastdon wrote: post #32

We (Europe) shouldn't fragment time zones that much. We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time. Reasons - criminality is lower when there's longer light - earlier darkness leads to more accidents. It's better to have longer darkness after the masses are RESTED (in the morning), opposed to when they're TIRED (in the evening) - longer day-time for office workers, is more productive - shorter time of year that has lo…

Summer time makes plenty of sense as-is, especially at fairly extreme latitudes like the Netherlands. Pithily stated, it is about keeping the wall-clock time (meaning the clock everyone looks at, the Schelling point in a society-wide coördination game) approximately aligned with sunrise/dawn. That way you always have sunlight in the morning, but the sun never rises too early making you lose sunlight in the evening.

> ...opposed to when they're TIRED (in the evening)

Morning darkness is way more dangerous. You don't want to have dark mornings when people are in a rush, commuting to work.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#142

Post by morsch »

theodric wrote: post #98
pmontra wrote: post #65

From the Who We Are page of the site > The Time Use Initiative (TUI) is the main non-profit organisation promoting the right to time all over the world. Its main objective is to encourage public discussion on how we collectively organise our time, seen as a way to improve citizen’s well-being through innovative time policies. So this is not a proposal from an EU department, but it's a proposal to the EU. For sure the…

It is, however, endorsed by some EU department and a bunch of other entities (see bottom)

The only organisation related to the EU is the European Economic and Social Committee, which is[1]: a consultative body of the European Union (EU) established in 1958. It is an advisory assembly composed of "social partners", namely: employers (employers' organisations), employees (trade unions) and representatives of various other interests. ...ok? This does not strike me as a particularly important institution.

Some -- not all -- of the other cosigning entities are ridiculous. One of them (Normalzeit Leben) is literally the title of one person's blog where they talk about their struggles with DST.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_and_Social_C...

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#143

Post by dudul »

NeoTar wrote: post #60

Putting Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland (AKA Ireland) on different timezones strikes me as political suicide for anyone proposing it. But otherwise I am warm to the proposal. Some tweaks would make it more practical/politically acceptable (keep Portugal and Ireland on the Western Time Zone, don't split up Greece from the islands).

Same with corsica an hour ahead of continental France. This is idiotic.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#144

Post by dudul »

mklepaczewski wrote: post #132

Serious question, why not adopt one timezone globally? For some of us sunrise would happen at 10pm, for others on 4pm. So what? Wouldn't we just get used to it? Is there any rationale for anchoring start of the day between 4am-8am?

You would still need to remember to not call your buddy in LA at your "8am" when in NYC. Now you need to take into account what a 9-to-5 translates to for all parts of the world. Solves nothing.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#145

Post by globular-toast »

katbyte wrote: post #135
mklepaczewski wrote: post #132

Serious question, why not adopt one timezone globally? For some of us sunrise would happen at 10pm, for others on 4pm. So what? Wouldn't we just get used to it? Is there any rationale for anchoring start of the day between 4am-8am?

No I imagine not as mid day and midnight have meaning and that changes them from roughly 12 and 12

Midday and midnight should be based only on the sun. Midday is when the sun is at the highest and midnight is half way between middays. Whether midday corresponds with 12ish on the clock or any other time doesn't really matter. The point of your parent comment is people would just get used to midday being around 18ish or work starting at 03:00 etc.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#146

Post by tivert »

xoa wrote: post #53
datadrivenangel wrote: post #2

"After agreement of a common date within the EU, we recommend doing the transition in 1 to 2 steps, depending on the member state: Step 1: All EU countries abolish the clock change to DST in spring and remain on the clock time they use in winter. For those countries whose recommended time zone is their current standard time, no further steps need to be taken. Step 2: Those countries whose recommended time zone is not…

Well we can't, and that's having tried! The replies do a great job of illustrating why really: there's no consensus. Some want permanent standard time. Some want permanent DST. Some are fine the way it is. In a big country spanning a lot of latitude as well as longitude and tens of millions on wildly different work and sleep schedules, messy compromise making no one entirely happy is what success looks like. Basicall…

> Basically time stuff is arguably one of the big Chesterton's Fences that comes up on HN a lot. We didn't end up where we are for no reason or because people in the past were stupid.

We should all pretend to be robots and use UTC for everything. Problem solved!

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#147

Post by jalk »

dirtybirdnj wrote: post #124

DST is social terrorism at this point. "We" keep it that way because the herd is too scared to change. Never underestimate the awful raw power of herd thinking, it's the worlds greatest cancer.

Really? Perhaps you should checkout https://www.timeanddate.com/ to see when the sun rises/sets in the summer in various places. I.e. June 21st Stockholm - 03:30 and 22:08 with DST. The vast majority of people simply prefer evening sun to "useless" night sun.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#148

Post by globular-toast »

mklepaczewski wrote: post #132

Serious question, why not adopt one timezone globally? For some of us sunrise would happen at 10pm, for others on 4pm. So what? Wouldn't we just get used to it? Is there any rationale for anchoring start of the day between 4am-8am?

I think a lot it comes down to pride. Nobody wants to be the country that works 23-7. We all want the "nice" numbers the UK picked for itself.
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