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Who makes the most reliable new cars?

consumerreports.org

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Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#141

Post by Vecr »

ajross wrote: post #117
agloe_dreams wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's reliability scores have always been pure and utter trash. This is the best result they have ever had. While other companies have a higher failure rate of major drivetrain components, Tesla is stuck somewhere between reinventing everything (thus lacking legacy knowledge) and not fixing things because they don't have the time/manpower for it. A great example of this is Model 3 Suspension failures. The Model 3 u…

> Tesla's reliability scores have always been pure and utter trash. Linked article is literally reliability score that puts them dead center in the middle of the pack. I'm amazed at the investment people have on arguments about Tesla, and this particular canard especially. I mean, they're cars? Sometimes they break? But not often? Some other brands are better. But some are worse! It's a boring story about boring fact…

> This is the best result they have ever had. If this is the best they've ever had for a report it means that all the other reports were worse.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#142

Post by WillAdams »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #32
nonethewiser wrote: post #12

Lexus is toyota. Accura is honda. So it’s really like: 1. Toyota 2. Mini 3. Honda 4. Subaru 5. Mazda Congratulations Japan.

It's incredible how the Japanese carmakers were able to perfect the auto manufacturing process and then proceed to hold that advantage for what, 30+ years now? It's not a secret how they did it, it's been studied to death, every manner of technology/expertise/management transfer has been tried, and still no one comes quite close enough to threaten their position.

The first time the U.S. tried to study this, they asked for a sample of parts, specifying a precision range, noting that it was acceptable for up to 10% of the parts to be at the extremes of said range.

The Japanese company sent them 3 bags of parts noting: The bag with the full quantity is made to match the provided blueprint, the other two bags contain 1/10th as many parts which are either larger or smaller as requested. May we ask what the purpose of these other parts is?

When they started measuring the parts, they were all identical --- part-way through, they decided that their micrometer must be broken and sent for another --- it revealed that all parts where _exactly_ the right size per the specifications of the drawing.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#143

Post by ajross »

Vecr wrote: post #141
ajross wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla's reliability scores have always been pure and utter trash. Linked article is literally reliability score that puts them dead center in the middle of the pack. I'm amazed at the investment people have on arguments about Tesla, and this particular canard especially. I mean, they're cars? Sometimes they break? But not often? Some other brands are better. But some are worse! It's a boring story about boring fact…

> This is the best result they have ever had. If this is the best they've ever had for a report it means that all the other reports were worse.

Or... that they're improving rapidly and we should celebrate that? Does that spin not work for you?

Look, again: they make cars. Cars are complicated devices and sometimes break. There's some, but not a lot, of variation between individual manufacturers in the frequency with which they break. And that's not very interesting, and doesn't justify the kind of outrage I'm seeing in threads like this.

Whatever has you guys all puffed up about this, it's not genuine concern for poor Tesla owners who spend 15% more time in the shop, or whatever.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#144

Post by ajross »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #131
ajross wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, exactly that level of investment in process and conservatism around change is arguably what led them all (literally every single Japanese manufacturer) to miss the boat on EVs. Basically, getting to your last sentence: you have the wrong threat model. Making "cars better" is great if what a "car" is doesn't change. But what the market wants is "better cars".

I'd hold off on declaring that the EV boat has departed. It remains to be seen at what level EV uptake will plateau, without major advances in battery tech and EV practicality. Coming from a rather nippy Canadian city which bought a bunch of electric buses, fucked up badly[0] and probably made purchasing more electric buses an untenable proposition for (conservatively) 5-7 years, and having heard from multiple EV own…

Not interested in EV flamery. My point was economic: clearly EVs are a very large new market segment, and Japanese brands aren't competing there at all. That's bad, if your business is to sell cars.

It's really bad if you have a sub-brand, like "Hybrids", which has been completely decimated by the (again very real, even if you don't think anyone in Edmonton should buy them) move to electric devices in the market.

Basically: 8 years ago Toyota owned the "ecologically sensitive car buyer" market. And now you might as well flush the Prius brand in the toilet, no one wants them and selling them as "green" relative to a Tesla is a joke.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#145

Post by ecliptik »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #85
raajg wrote: post #7

I don't see how 'Tesla' is not top of the list here. For the 'Trouble Areas' I suspected they're normalizing over the 'length of ownership' which would bias the scores towards older car companies.

I don't own a Tesla, but just from observing them on the road and in the neighbourhood I can tell there are many reliability issues just with the easily observable features: * Model S third brake light has single LEDs failing one by one * Model X doors don't open in sub-zero weather, friends of us had an ICE rental car for weeks last winter * All models, automatic activation of rear driving lights at night does not w…

> Model 3 and Y automatic high beams / matrix LED don't function correctly at night if the car is dirty, they blind everyone on the road - I will be very surprised if this doesn't trigger a recall soon

Is that what that is? I thought it was my eyes getting older when thinking car headlights are brighter at night than they used to be. We live in an area with a high % of Teslas on the road and this could explain a lot.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#146

Post by tim333 »

neogodless wrote: post #24
smlacy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Mini BMW?

Yes. But still, 4/5 of the most reliable brands (including their luxury division) are Japanese. BMW/Mini is up there, though!

It's nice and slightly surprising to see something somewhat made in Britain up there in reliability. I know BMW own it but a lot are still made outside Oxford.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#147

Post by EnergyAmy »

ajross wrote: post #124
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incredible how the Japanese carmakers were able to perfect the auto manufacturing process and then proceed to hold that advantage for what, 30+ years now? It's not a secret how they did it, it's been studied to death, every manner of technology/expertise/management transfer has been tried, and still no one comes quite close enough to threaten their position.

To be fair, exactly that level of investment in process and conservatism around change is arguably what led them all (literally every single Japanese manufacturer) to miss the boat on EVs. Basically, getting to your last sentence: you have the wrong threat model. Making "cars better" is great if what a "car" is doesn't change. But what the market wants is "better cars".

Every single Japanese manufacturer? Nissan has been and is doing great with the Leaf. They discontinued recently, but only to replace it with a new EV, not because it was doing badly.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#148

Post by saltymug76 »

qup wrote: post #69
saltymug76 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a link to that thread?

Maybe here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/jbw8i7/mechanics... Older than I thought, but perhaps I just stumbled across it this year. That's the only one I could find with a big number of comments, like I recall.

Thank you!

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#149

Post by rokkitmensch »

aalimov_ wrote: post #61
omginternets wrote: post #34

Does this account for driving habits? I’ve just purchased a Subaru WRX, and I can’t fight the feeling that the reliability score is in some way influenced by the hoards of idiots that flock to this car for its tuning and hooning potential.

Yeah there’s certainly a temptation there if you’re into working in cars. Alongside your tuning/hooning remark - some cars certainly attract a particular kind of audience, although if it was really hoards, they would have probably released an STI variant for the new body :(

(hordes)

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#150

Post by 93po »

brookside wrote: post #99

I have never understood how the Consumer Reports model of self(reader)-reported reliability can produce can statistically valid results. There are many biases build in to self-reporting surveys. Longtime Consumer Reports readers who buy a Toyota because they believe it is the most reliable make want their choice to have been correct. Their answers about problems with their car will reflect that.

Data around cars is notoriously complete bullshit. One example is that one of the main metrics used by a very big name, maybe CR, is “reliability compared to *expectations*”. Obviously cars that people have high expectations for (Teslas) are going to score horribly here even if they are objectively more reliable than other brands. And of course they bury this little fact way down in the info and everyone walks away with “welp teslas just fucking break all the time”
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