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SpaceX Loses Starship Spaceraft During Test Flight

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Re: SpaceX Loses Starship Spaceraft During Test Flight

#141
post #134
post #2

Altogether, it was a terrific flight and a big step forward for the Starship program. The biggest success was the survival of stage zero, which bodes well for a quick turnaround for the next flight. Hot staging was the second big success, and Starship got to space. The flight termination was disappointing, but the actual functioning of the FTS system seems to be fixed. That was a problem with the first flight and sho…

I don't understand why people are celebrating failed rocket launches. Apollo 4, the first time the full Apollo Saturn V rocket stack was assembled, did not blow up on the first attempt to space. That is something to celebrate. Now wasting millions of government dollars from subsidies, which in the end comes from citizens. We should not be celebrating failure.

I notice you omitted an earlier, extremely prominently failed, Apollo mission.

Apollo 1 is highly analogous to the current testing of Starship. New spacecraft, highly ambitious, coming together for the first time.

Its conflagration was predictable, and a total waste of the life of the astronauts onboard. Only their deaths forced the whole spacecraft to be redesigned the way it should have been before any astronauts were onboard. Even afterwards, a second electrical fire nearly killed three more astronauts, far from any safety though their shiny new door.

The Space Shuttle ran much the same way. Carrying astronauts on its very first flight, people though it was safe, right up until it spectacularly killed seven astronauts. After that, it was flown much less ambitiously, and then it killed seven more people, and then we still kept flying it because it was all we had, and our bureaucracy was stuck with it.

Starship blowing up today poses no risk to human life, or to any organizational ambition. Rather, its present failures represent progress towards future success. Somebody is trying to do better than has been done in the past. If they learn all the things to not do to their rocket before valuable payloads and people fly on it, all the better.

Re: SpaceX Loses Starship Spaceraft During Test Flight

#142
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what you consider a machine, the largest power grids are more powerful. Though those are arguably multiple devices acting together not a single device. Most powerful local machine that’s close to steady state is probably Three Gorges Dam at 22.5 GW. Starship is like a top drag racer where it’s quickly damaging itself in normal operation, but it’s the most powerful local machine that can last for over a min…

I might be off here, but I think the super heavy booster actually puts out more power than 3 Gorges. At stage separation, the booster and starship were moving at ~5500 kph, or about 1500 m/s. The nominal maximum thrust of the super heavy booster is given as 75,000 KN on Wikipedia. Possibly that level of thrust is only happening ar liftoff, I’m not sure, but if the engines were still burning that hot at stage sep, the…

Right ballpark but missing a few important caveats. Rocket engines generally throttle down to maintain a constant acceleration, otherwise you need to add more structural support to the following stages which costs weight.

Also, calculating power output like that is misleading. A solar powered ion engine on a probe has constant solar power and constant acceleration but would have increasing calculated power output over time as it keeps accelerating. What’s going on is rather than the engine being more powerful the propellant starts with more kinetic energy.

Re: SpaceX Loses Starship Spaceraft During Test Flight

#143
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, even in failure, there's progress. "Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration" is often attributed to Edison, without whom, we wouldn't have the lightbulb. In order to make progress, you need to try. And if you never fail, you're not trying hard enough. Would it be better if it hadn't failed? Absolutely. But better to try and fail than never try.

What bothers me is that they don't even try to succeed. They only want liftoff - they don't seem to care about the ever important orbital aspect

Why don't you think they're trying to succeed? They got very close to orbit today, much closer than many prototype rockets do. Just earlier this year, Japan's new rocket also failed to achieve orbit. Its second stage just didn't ignite at all. Starship got closer to orbit than that today.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/03/the-launch-of-japans...

The Soviet N1 rocket never even got past first stage separation, in 4 launches. They got closer every time, but after the 4th stage blew up during main engine cut-off, they canceled the program, and never flew a cosmonaut beyond low-earth orbit.

Re: SpaceX Loses Starship Spaceraft During Test Flight

#144
post #82

I must be the only one that can't stand the laugh track equivalent they keep pushing into their launch videos. Just reeks of tacky marketing.

I guess so? I like it because it shows that thousands of engineers are rooting for their their work. Aside, the stream itself is marketing, they are not required to broadcast launches.

Re: SpaceX Loses Starship Spaceraft During Test Flight

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the person/people who run archive.is doesn’t like certain DNS providers (CloudFlare, Apple) and this is what happens when you use one. Happens on my phone every time.

DNS providers? How would they find out which DNS provider I'm using to find their addresses?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19828702

Re: SpaceX Loses Starship Spaceraft During Test Flight

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the person/people who run archive.is doesn’t like certain DNS providers (CloudFlare, Apple) and this is what happens when you use one. Happens on my phone every time.

DNS providers? How would they find out which DNS provider I'm using to find their addresses?

IIRC, they rely on EDNS in the request, which gives some origin subnet information in the request.

Re: SpaceX Loses Starship Spaceraft During Test Flight

#149
post #98
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that’s one way to define success or a milestone. The Saturn V used for the Apollo program had different criteria, like not blowing up and having all engines ignite. Now that we have the person who knows more about manufacturing than anyone else alive in charge I’m sure these glitches will get sorted out.

Ah yes, because the Apollo program is famous for never having any problems with unscheduled fires or explosions. Completely safe, it was. Sarcasm aside, NASA has blown up plenty of rockets. It's not a problem to blow up a rocket if it doesn't pose any substantial risk. NASA doesn't much like to blow up rockets anymore because it's contrary to how their operational model works: Congress gives NASA a task, a deadline,…

>Starship, on the other hand, is not being depended on by anybody at the moment. No project gets delayed or cancelled when it explodes;

Did you forget the Artemis 2 mission?

Starship appears to be a source of delays, not SLS.

Re: SpaceX Loses Starship Spaceraft During Test Flight

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The early history of rocketry was non stop blowups, I mean hundreds of them. You can watch edits of this on youtube. Rocket science is hard hence "It's not rocket science", except it is. Having money and smart people doesn't ensure success. Bezos started his company before Musk did Space X and they still haven't gotten to space.

And it's science that fails spectacularly. If I utterly fail at a Computer Science, there's no giant explosion.

... yet ... so far.

The more reasons to leave AI out of nuclear launch mechanism.

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