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No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

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Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#141

Post by gretch »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #139
gretch wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definitions you just came up with are completely arbitrary. Worst yet, your definitions aren't even shared. It's hard to pin down exact agreed upon definitions in English, but I searched many popular dictionaries and none of them have "Engineers work is the application the laws of physics". Fair enough if you want to have personal definitions of words, but don't try to gaslight the rest of us into thinking your u…

I brought up a definition shared by many people, and did so without hostility. Do you have a real definition that you can bring to the table? Is there a reason why you are taking things personally? Can you articulate the difference between an engineer and a scientist?

No you didn't have hostility, but you had a boat load of pretentiousness, and unfortunately that's often indistinguishable.

> I brought up a definition shared by many people

What you did is discount the definition used much more widely and commonly. You didn't just bring up a new possible definition, you declared another one invalid by saying "Because software development isnt an engineering task".

If you want social counter-proof you can go to LinkedIn and type "Software Engineer" to see how many people consider Software Engineering to be a form of engineering.

> Do you have a real definition that you can bring to the table?

Yes, the definition that I think has the most use to society and is most precise while still being inclusive is "Engineers are people who solve real world problems in resource constrained environments". In fact I think the best engineers work across mediums, including software. For example, someone who engineers a robot has to do mechanical and software.

> Is there a reason why you are taking things personally?

I'm not, not sure what leads you to conclude this.

> Can you articulate the difference between an engineer and a scientist?

No I can't. Does that matter?

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#142

Post by assimpleaspossi »

mandarax8 wrote: post #131
assimpleaspossi wrote: post #102

We had a presentation of our new medical instrument to marketing on Wednesday so there was a big push on Monday to get the display up and running perfectly. There was a dot on the screen. I didn't know why there was a dot but I was under pressure to finish everything else. So I semi-ignored it. The the Engineering Manager walked by. "There's a dot," he said, "Get rid of it before Wednesday." With all the other things…

No I don't see it. Are moving D0 into B? What's the #0 doing?

The problem. It's MOVE.B #0,D0

Do you see it now?

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#143

Post by s1artibartfast »

organian wrote: post #130
smt88 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly just a joke about how these roles do their jobs. But I think it's also partly illuminating the fact that hardware engineers are true engineers, while software engineers mostly aren't.

I think "software engineers aren't really engineers" is putting "real engineering" on a pedestal that is borne of ignorance. Hillel Wayne's engineer interviews were eye-opening on this: https://www.hillelwayne.com/post/are-we-really-engineers/

I have a different take. Engineer is basically synonymous with application physicist. Someone why applies the laws of physics to achieve a goal. I don't think this is so much a pedestal, or why some software engineers are passionate. Is being a computer scientist somehow negative?

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#144

Post by oefnak »

feintruled wrote: post #4

That's quite a tale, a parable almost about how software engineering differs from other jobs (I want to say 'real' jobs but tongue in cheek). I like this one too, it's even snappier. A software engineer, a hardware engineer and a department manager were on their way to a meeting in Switzerland. They were driving down a steep mountain road when suddenly the brakes on their car failed. The car careened almost out of co…

Or they would say: go fast and break things!

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#145

Post by starlevel003 »

pests wrote: post #138
frutiger wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Well," said the software engineer, "Before we do anything, I think we should push the car back up the road and see if it happens again." Only the brakes don't work - the engine still does. Why would they need to push the car uphill?

Reminds me of the Family Guy episode (I think) when Peter and Lous are both running for Mayor (or whatever) and were going to a debate. Peter had his brakes cut and when he arrives says "Sorry I'm late! Brakes failed" to which the response was "Shouldn't you have gotten here sooner?"

That was a Simpsons episode. S9E22 Trash of the Titans.

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#147

Post by quickthrower2 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #31
feintruled wrote: post #4

That's quite a tale, a parable almost about how software engineering differs from other jobs (I want to say 'real' jobs but tongue in cheek). I like this one too, it's even snappier. A software engineer, a hardware engineer and a department manager were on their way to a meeting in Switzerland. They were driving down a steep mountain road when suddenly the brakes on their car failed. The car careened almost out of co…

Is the moral of the story that the hardware engineer is simply correct? - a mechanical engineer

It is almost as if it is the closest profession to what they really needed: a roadside mechanic.

Also the story is unfair on the manager. The manager would call everyone in to have a war room meeting on how to fix this urgent production issues. They’d give a quick overview of the problem the open it up for the experts to talk. While the tech whizzes are talking they would order pizza or yum cha or something for the team.

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#148

Post by gerdesj »

wruza wrote: post #92
smt88 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly just a joke about how these roles do their jobs. But I think it's also partly illuminating the fact that hardware engineers are true engineers, while software engineers mostly aren't.

Why not hire hardware engineers to write software then?

I learned ForTran whilst studying Civ Eng. back in '89 - '91 . Notice the two digit year - you software lot gave us the Y2K snag 8) It seems rather silly these days when terabytes are trivially available but when every bit, byte and nybble costed rather a lot, it nearly made sense.

If software techies/engineers wish to push back, may I suggest: Tay bridge, Tacoma Narrows, Millennium bridge and concrete cancer. Comet commercial jet airliners and the many snags that lead to fillets and rounded corners on ships int al. Do we count Titanic as "user error" or inappropriate expectations exceeded?

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#149

Post by sterlind »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #143
organian wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "software engineers aren't really engineers" is putting "real engineering" on a pedestal that is borne of ignorance. Hillel Wayne's engineer interviews were eye-opening on this: https://www.hillelwayne.com/post/are-we-really-engineers/

I have a different take. Engineer is basically synonymous with application physicist. Someone why applies the laws of physics to achieve a goal. I don't think this is so much a pedestal, or why some software engineers are passionate. Is being a computer scientist somehow negative?

I think of applied physicist as something very different, closer to science than engineering. The kinds of people who research new battery chemistries, or the techniques to unlock new semiconductor process nodes. Basically, scientists do hardcore research and expand the field, while engineers apply the techniques and formulas that the scientists have discovered, and craftsmen combine prepackaged modules built by engineers for a job.

So an applied physicist discovers the light-emitting diode. An electrical engineer designs an LED light panel. An electrician wires light panels into a home.

Likewise, a computer scientist discovers NFA reduction, an engineer uses it to build a regular expression compiler, and a developer writes a regex to validate email addresses.

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#150

Post by pests »

starlevel003 wrote: post #145
pests wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the Family Guy episode (I think) when Peter and Lous are both running for Mayor (or whatever) and were going to a debate. Peter had his brakes cut and when he arrives says "Sorry I'm late! Brakes failed" to which the response was "Shouldn't you have gotten here sooner?"

That was a Simpsons episode. S9E22 Trash of the Titans.

Ah thanks, damn. Mixed up my adult animation. I swear I can picture the entire scene as Family Guy characters in my head though.
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