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Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

theverge.com

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Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#141

Post by flohofwoe »

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #86
jnwatson wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft tried the Kinect for 13 years. How long are they supposed to let a product run? It was a cool tech solution in search of a problem.

You're glossing over a big part of the story. It is hard, really, really hard, to convince game developers and publishers to make games that require an optional accessory. It's been tried again and again and it is never more than a mild success and usually an abject failure. They want to target the base platform, which will always have a dramatically larger install base. Thr original Kinect was just such an optional…

> The original Kinect was just such an optional accessory...

The Xbox One was then tightly integrated with the Kinect, but that was such an unpopular move that they eventually gave up (first by no longer requiring the Kinect to be connected [1], then by no longer shipping a Kinect with each Xbox [2]) - so it's not for lack of trying. The thing was just unpopular with Xbox users.

...also as an Xbox 360 user at that time I saw Kinect as an expensive toy, and the completely brainless Xbox One marketing (which made very obvious that I'm not their target audience) was one of the main reasons why I gave up on the Xbox and went back to PC gaming.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/12/4615586/xbox-one-no-longe...

[2] https://kotaku.com/microsoft-announces-xbox-one-without-kine...

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#142

Post by happymellon »

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #16

One of the things I find very frustrating about Microsoft (and to a lesser extent Google) is how they will walk back nearly anything at the slightest pushback and cancel anything that isn't an immediate overnight success. The Kinect was really, really cool tech, and I dream about what could have been if MS had not made the Kinect thst came with the XBox One optional pretty much right after it was announced.

I wish they would do this to Edge.

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#143

Post by danw1979 »

HomeDeLaPot wrote: post #102
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #16

One of the things I find very frustrating about Microsoft (and to a lesser extent Google) is how they will walk back nearly anything at the slightest pushback and cancel anything that isn't an immediate overnight success. The Kinect was really, really cool tech, and I dream about what could have been if MS had not made the Kinect thst came with the XBox One optional pretty much right after it was announced.

Wish they would have done this with Teams

I agree… if you can’t even make the scroll bar on a chat history work, it’s time to give up.

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#144

Post by pjmlp »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #130
pjmlp wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If on .NET, Windows Forms, WPF, or the community projects from Uno and Avalonia. For C++, you're better off with Qt, wxWidgets. You can use Visual Studio Community if the licence still fits your work, or in the case of Qt, Qt Creator alongside a recent VS or MinGW.

>For C++, you're better off with Qt, wxWidgets. Only if you need cross platform.

You certainly never had the pleasure of using XAML C++, with C++/WinRT and IDL files, after the downgrade of using C++/CX.

On the Microsoft tooling stack even MFC offers better development experience on Visual Studio.

I left it out on purpose, because I doubt the OP would like to use MFC, and I wouldn't even recomend XAML C++ development experience to my enemies.

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#145

Post by pjmlp »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #131
pjmlp wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can throw similar alphabet soups from other ecosystems, either one is in and gets them, or not.

Not really. Apple has a much more consistent story on UI frameworks.

Not being around Mac OS long enough?

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#146

Post by chithanh »

pjmlp wrote: post #123
chithanh wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft both directly and indirectly turned app developers away from Windows Phone. Mobile games at the time were all OpenGL ES, which Microsoft refused to support in favor of Direct3D. Then there was Microsoft's perpetual need to start over. WM6.5 to WP7 broke app compatibility. WP7 to WP8, entirely new APIs. WP8 to WM10 there was UWP and Continuum, again forcing major rewrites if you wanted the new features. And…

There was no lack of games, Valve even needs to emulate DirectX and Win32, as Android developers couldn't care less about Steam Deck. The rewrites across multiple versions, that is what killed the desire to target the devices.

There were numerous comments from game developers, including from folks here on HN, that the lack of OpenGL ES was a major obstacle for porting games to Windows Phone: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15434891

I don't understand what you write about Valve, the Steam Deck supports unmodified Win32 games which use DirectX.

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#147

Post by faeriechangling »

Paraesthetic wrote: post #136
faeriechangling wrote: post #119

I predict the death of Windows Phone will eventually cause Windows to be totally eclipsed by ChromeOS. Not today, not anytime soon, but Alphabet is in an INCREDIBLE strategic position JUST because of Android.

ChromeOS is absolutely flaming garbage, and its years from being suitable. Also no company in their right mind would trust google for privacy

They also who’ve no business trusting Microsoft when it comes to privacy, this being a company who has infamously stolen its competitors products several times and later bankrupted them, yet that hasn’t stopped them from succeeding.

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#148

Post by m_mueller »

pjmlp wrote: post #145
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Apple has a much more consistent story on UI frameworks.

Not being around Mac OS long enough?

such as? If I remember correctly (has been a few years), over the last 15-20 years there were

iOS: UIKit -> SwiftUI

MacOS: AppKit -> Catalyst -> SwiftUI

there was definitely some churn within each one of those from version to version, but no complete rewrite needed afaik.

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#149

Post by leeman2016 »

HomeDeLaPot wrote: post #102
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #16

One of the things I find very frustrating about Microsoft (and to a lesser extent Google) is how they will walk back nearly anything at the slightest pushback and cancel anything that isn't an immediate overnight success. The Kinect was really, really cool tech, and I dream about what could have been if MS had not made the Kinect thst came with the XBox One optional pretty much right after it was announced.

Wish they would have done this with Teams

I feel like there is an entire OS starting up behind Teams, when I start/open it up

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#150

Post by akhosravian »

jnwatson wrote: post #40
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #16

One of the things I find very frustrating about Microsoft (and to a lesser extent Google) is how they will walk back nearly anything at the slightest pushback and cancel anything that isn't an immediate overnight success. The Kinect was really, really cool tech, and I dream about what could have been if MS had not made the Kinect thst came with the XBox One optional pretty much right after it was announced.

Microsoft tried the Kinect for 13 years. How long are they supposed to let a product run? It was a cool tech solution in search of a problem.

The Kinect was released in November 2010. Are you suggesting they’re still running it?

My understanding is it died ~six months after the Xbox one released (early 2014) when they stopped bundling it with that console. They kept selling it for several years after, but it was inconceivable it would do anything but die at that point.

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