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Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

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Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#141

Post by gizmo »

Vaslo wrote: post #118
gizmo wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every employee is a good negotiator. And poor negotiators get underpaid in a market system even when they are great at their job. Unions fix this market inefficiency by having good negotiators act on their behalf.

The company doesn’t pay for the increased cost though. I pay as a consumer. What do I get in return, especially since I’m not in nor have any interest in joining one?

As a consumer you benefit from maximally exploited workers. This is why rich countries import so many products from poor countries that have barely any labor protections.

In the good old days companies paid strike-breakers to crack skulls and sometimes kill employees who agitated for better working conditions. It is because of collective bargaining that workers got a 5 day work-week, mandatory holidays, sick leave, maternity leave, a basic pension, and the right to a safe workplace. Many have died to ensure these basic rights for everybody.

In the good old days employers didn't have to take factory safety into consideration. If you got crippled by factory machinery you would get fired and live the rest of your short life in destitution. Let's go back to that system. Employees will be free to choose the factory that maims them. The cost savings will surely be passed on to the consumer.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#142

Post by dontlaugh »

the_other wrote: post #55
ivolimmen wrote: post #49

I find it so weird to read these stories on how Americans cope with unionizing. In the Netherlands where I live it is very common and normal to be member of a union. Most branches have a union, IT sector is a "free sector" and does not have a union. My wife works as a teacher and she is member of a union.

In the UK, many IT roles can join the Communication Workers Union[0] [0]: https://www.cwu.org/

More specifically, the UTAW branch https://utaw.tech

There's also IWGB Game Workers for relevant workers https://www.gameworkers.co.uk/

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#143

Post by twoodfin »

bythreads wrote: post #104
ivalm wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US median income, even disposable income after all the medical/housing costs, is higher than all of the large EU countries (France, Germany, etc). So if anyone has bullshit pay, it’s the Europeans.

Show me those numbers!. adjusting for cost of Living, healthcare, insurance, childrearing costs (free education) and taxes i betcha that statement is factually wrong

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per...

The list below represents a national accounts derived indicator for a country or territory's gross household disposable income per capita (including social transfers in kind). According to the OECD, 'household disposable income is income available to households such as wages and salaries, income from self-employment and unincorporated enterprises, income from pensions and other social benefits, and income from financial investments (less any payments of tax, social insurance contributions and interest on financial liabilities)…

This indicator also takes account of social transfers in kind 'such as health or education provided for free or at reduced prices by governments and not-for-profit organisations.'

The USA wallops even tiny, rich Luxembourg. There are some not-insignificant Covid-related distortions here, will be interesting to see the 2022 numbers.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#144

Post by potatopatch »

philipwhiuk wrote: post #137
Animats wrote: post #10

It's illegal.See "Discriminating against employees because of their union activities or sympathies" [1] Enforcement is weak, but it's illegal. [1] https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/di...

They're not employees. These aren't technically layoffs. The company is being acquired and then they are choosing not to issue a bunch of people contracts.

That is still a lay off. If the company is acquired you don't get to pick and choose what contracts it had are valid, you have to argue your new contract is similar employment terms or you have laid someone off.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#145

Post by ahoka »

0xpgm wrote: post #92
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is too worried about the layoffs, but these look like targeted layoffs, reinforcing the notion that union members / representatives are troublesome. At the very least, for the sake of optics, they shouldn't have fired the union reps. Not all of them anyway.

> At the very least, for the sake of optics, they shouldn't have fired the union reps. Not all of them anyway. We're all making assumptions here, but let's assume they had legitimate business reasons for the layoffs. What you suggest is that they make less optimal decisions for the sake of optics. In a free-market economy, the companies that make less optimal decisions will have their lunch eaten by those that don't.

What do you think a free-market is? Something where the company could harvest the organs of the employees instead of firing them to maximize profits?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#146

Post by ponector »

derrida wrote: post #61
nemo44x wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IT doesn’t traditionally gafe unions in the USA. Teachers are unionized here and are one of the most powerful political forces. They are also a likely reason why so many people here don’t like unions.

And in the EU it is probably why they have free healthcare, high minimum wage, work weeks of 34-38 hrs, welfare, 8 hour work days, overtime after, high proportion of part time workers, and highest productivity per hour in Germany. But yeah, unions, hate what you gotta hate. I personally hate long hours for bullshit pay.

Free healthcare!

I pay 9% of my income in Poland for the public healthcare I couldn't use due to enormous queues. Therefore I pay subscription to the private medical provider, pay for dentistry, for all the medicine prescribed by any doctor(public as well).

What percentage of income typical software spends for medical insurance and bills?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#147

Post by kundi »

Applejinx wrote: post #139
kundi wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, according to our potential misbelief about the world and how it works treating the project as a "sacred child", which might be an attitude very unknown to some of you here, it hasn't striked us that someone would go to look and read the Terms of Service, before really looking at the site, its mission and the music. Perhaps you haven't had a chance to arrive there yet, but we will take your comment as a…

It did not occur to you that musicians would look at the terms of their contract? You plan to, but have not yet, implement unspecified changes, not for musicians but 'law-oriented music lovers'? I am just about speechless. May your 'sacred child' not come to term. edit: I can't find any sign that anybody else anywhere is even aware of this… if what you mean is that the project is JUST you, and there won't be anybody…

I apologize if this got transmitted in the inappropriate form.

Could you share your perspective on what would be the most productive terms for the independent musicians and what all would you expect them to entail?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#148

Post by Applejinx »

kundi wrote: post #147
Applejinx wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It did not occur to you that musicians would look at the terms of their contract? You plan to, but have not yet, implement unspecified changes, not for musicians but 'law-oriented music lovers'? I am just about speechless. May your 'sacred child' not come to term. edit: I can't find any sign that anybody else anywhere is even aware of this… if what you mean is that the project is JUST you, and there won't be anybody…

I apologize if this got transmitted in the inappropriate form. Could you share your perspective on what would be the most productive terms for the independent musicians and what all would you expect them to entail?

If you have to ask, you should not be doing this.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#149

Post by hiAndrewQuinn »

derrida wrote: post #61
nemo44x wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IT doesn’t traditionally gafe unions in the USA. Teachers are unionized here and are one of the most powerful political forces. They are also a likely reason why so many people here don’t like unions.

And in the EU it is probably why they have free healthcare, high minimum wage, work weeks of 34-38 hrs, welfare, 8 hour work days, overtime after, high proportion of part time workers, and highest productivity per hour in Germany. But yeah, unions, hate what you gotta hate. I personally hate long hours for bullshit pay.

Well, it's not really free healthcare, at least not here in Finland. You're expected to spend at least an hour every day exercising with all the time we have off here to make sure you don't get super sick in the first place. In practice then we actually work 45 hours a week every week.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#150

Post by [deleted] »

nabla9 wrote: post #97
ivolimmen wrote: post #49

I find it so weird to read these stories on how Americans cope with unionizing. In the Netherlands where I live it is very common and normal to be member of a union. Most branches have a union, IT sector is a "free sector" and does not have a union. My wife works as a teacher and she is member of a union.

American unions are not like European unions. In Europe sectoral unions and sectoral bargaining is the norm. In the US federal law does not allow that. Each firm must unionize individually. In the US unions and enterprices play zero sum game against each other. If the firm unionizes, the firm loses relative to non-unionized competition. Example: the current UAW (United Auto Workers) dispute in the US. If UAW wins, un…

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