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One game, by one man, on six platforms: The good, the bad and the ugly

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Re: One game, by one man, on six platforms: The good, the bad and the ugly

#141

Post by wiseowise »

oldbbsnickname wrote: post #61
ugh123 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electron would be great if it weren't for the performance, security, configuration, and packaging issues. The latter two seem to be what OP suffered the most. html/css/js (and the frameworks on top of it) seem like a pretty low bar to build games and business logic for a variety of apps which, despite huge efforts from OP, could run on pretty much any modern platform.

Native is the only way to go. The problem of the mythology of cross-platform (pseudo-)development is having to know both the underlying platform AND the abstraction layer. This explains why RubyMotion, PhoneGap/Cordova, and Appcelerator/Titanium were flops, and so shall Microsoft's MAUI. There is nothing for free. Abstractions cost performance and confuse troubleshooting.

Native is a dead end. It is anti-consumer and oppressive.

Re: One game, by one man, on six platforms: The good, the bad and the ugly

#142

Post by bullen »

Capricorn2481 wrote: post #138
bullen wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java is the best thing we have gotten since C in 1970. That was 30 years ago. Since then everyone has been copying Java: C#, WASM, Go, Rust... nothing even scratches the surface. And it never was insecure, it was removed by the same people that leverages consume only devices and root certificates. That said I'm actually a proponent of bringing back the MIDlet, J2ME was the best software platform ever created.

You misunderstand me. I think Java's great. Java applets were quite bloated. moreso than Electron. You can still make Java Applets if you want, but people have moved on.

Applets where bloated by programmers, my Applets where super lean.

No, I can't develop Applets, they are disabled in all browsers.

Re: One game, by one man, on six platforms: The good, the bad and the ugly

#144

Post by Apocryphon »

halostatue wrote: post #130
zubairq wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could Flutter from Google be considered a good enough solution?

Only if you don't value your battery life, usability, proper accessibility, or developer ergonomics with a language that has no raison d’être.

What's the evidence that battery life is substantially worse than native? Take this performance for example.

https://www.orientsoftware.com/blog/flutter-vs-react-native-...

While the framework had issues with accessibility in the past, seems like they've been adding a lot to improve it.

https://www.kodeco.com/35275067-flutter-accessibility-gettin...

Dart is a simple, no-frills language. It's not used outside of Flutter but what is wrong with its semantics or anything inherent about it?

Re: One game, by one man, on six platforms: The good, the bad and the ugly

#145

Post by imadethis »

schemescape wrote: post #12
Aardwolf wrote: post #4

> Linux accounts for less than 1% of the total players I think some types of games (think factory building, zachtronics style puzzle games, ...) might have a bigger percentage, though that's only a feeling I have, I don't have numbers myself, I just see such games more often have a Linux release on Steam that seems appreciated.

I published a not-super-popular (edit: but free) esoteric programming game on Steam and of the I'm sure the hardware survey is biased towards Linux, but it's still a surprising result! Especially so, given that I originally only released the game on Windows (and later added Linux support after getting multiple requests to port the game).

Downloaded the game based on this comment. The Zero-Instruction computer achievement was one of the most fun "sidequests" I've played in this type of game. Thanks!

ninja edit: the lack of vim mappings is killing me

Re: One game, by one man, on six platforms: The good, the bad and the ugly

#146

Post by bigstrat2003 »

wolfendin wrote: post #111
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They showed time and again that they don't want a too-wide developer audience. Indeed. And that is (one reason) why Mac will never be more than a third-rate platform. As I said, they're shooting themselves in the foot.

How do you reconcile your hypothesis that Apple is shooting themselves in the foot with the past 13 years of success they’ve achieved with this setup?

Because they haven't achieved any serious success with the Mac. If they didn't have their portable device line they would be a bit player in the tech industry.

Re: One game, by one man, on six platforms: The good, the bad and the ugly

#147

Post by wiseowise »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #146
wolfendin wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile your hypothesis that Apple is shooting themselves in the foot with the past 13 years of success they’ve achieved with this setup?

Because they haven't achieved any serious success with the Mac. If they didn't have their portable device line they would be a bit player in the tech industry.

That’s like saying “if you ignore their biggest success, they’re not successful”.

Re: One game, by one man, on six platforms: The good, the bad and the ugly

#148

Post by glimshe »

wiseowise wrote: post #140
PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how people use hyperbole such as "screaming fast" and yet a native application that's not even all that optimized will tend to run absolute circles around these "screaming fast" solutions. How are we supposed to describe these native apps? What's faster than screaming fast? ear shatteringly quick?

> I love how people use hyperbole such as "screaming fast" and yet a native application that's not even all that optimized will tend to run absolute circles around these "screaming fast" solutions. And you of course have nontrivial examples to prove that? Or as always source: trust me, bro?

This is like asking to prove the sky is blue in a sunny day. Walk outside and you'll see it. I was talking to friends about how we've forgotten how fast computers are because all we see are web pages and Electron applications. People don't even remember the wonder of native applications.

Try building an operating system or browser engine in Javascript and you'll see what the parent is saying. I'm just giving you these examples because these are some of the last remaining native applications everybody still uses, but pretty much any native application will be much faster than the Javascript version. The reason browser wins is that we got to a point where the performance is "good enough" and the development cost is significantly lower.

Re: One game, by one man, on six platforms: The good, the bad and the ugly

#150

Post by pas »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #102
tobyjsullivan wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what people said about IE over 20 years ago. History has proven this reasoning untrue. Web isn't going anywhere. If there's an opportunity to build something 10x better than Chrome, it'll be shipped.

> If there's an opportunity to build something 10x better than Chrome, it'll be shipped. There won’t be. Since IE6 the standards have grown to inhuman proportions, and implementing a new browser engine is even more difficult than it was then.

there's no need to do it from scratch, nor to do it all really.

if there's some great innovation it can be introduced in a fork of Firefox/Chrome/etc.

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