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Impacts of lack of sleep

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Re: Impacts of lack of sleep

#141

Post by TeMPOraL »

a96 wrote: post #132
TeMPOraL wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wish this worked for me, but my brain straight up ignores[0] any kind of alarm clocks, music, light, etc. until it's something like 10:00 in the morning, or until a person wakes me up (and checks 5-10 minutes later if I'm actually up)[1]. So, shifting time to morning turned out to be impossible to maintain when I was living alone - I could hold such schedule for maybe a week at most, gradually oversleeping more and m…

Sounds familiar. There's probably some sort of pineal gland feature that makes this habitual shifting essentially impossible. You just get more and more sleep deprivation combined with lying in bed not sleeping. My ex wife told me I'd once answered her phone call in the morning and had a complete conversation only speaking absolute nonsense until she hung up. I had no recollection of that at all. Two things that migh…

> My ex wife told me I'd once answered her phone call in the morning and had a complete conversation only speaking absolute nonsense until she hung up. I had no recollection of that at all.

I've had that several times. The kicker is, I actually did make enough sense that she didn't suspect I wasn't awake, and it wasn't until later that I learned from her that the conversation happened - usually because I agreed to something, or was given important information, which I had no recollection of. The phone log, of course, confirmed a conversation took place.

Melatonin sounds like it may work long-term, but at this point my wakeup time is set by our kids, and my bedtime is set by my acute revenge bedtime procrastination, so sleep deprivation it is :/. I wish there was something that could immediately force/reset the circadian rhythm, which I could use on business travel.

Re: Impacts of lack of sleep

#142

Post by quectophoton »

InSteady wrote: post #127

The caffeine trap can be particularly insidious, especially for those of us who metabolize it slower. Its half-life can range from as low as 1.5 hours all the way up to 9.5 hours. So on the high end of that scale, if you drink 3 cups of coffee, containing say 300mg of caffeine, between 7 and 10 AM then you still have around 100mg of caffeine kicking around in your system when 11pm rolls around, clogging up your adeno…

I'm probably your complete opposite on this lol.

I don't know how tolerance plays into this, but I drink like 1L or more of coffee a day, and have done so for more than a decade, and I have never felt any difficulty falling asleep.

Well, besides some reluctance during weekdays because I just don't want the next day to arrive, because of work, so I sometimes just go to sleep later and suffer the consequences for the next following days; but during long vacations (1-2 consecutive weeks long) it's all good, even with little to no variation on how much coffee I drink or the times I wake up and go to bed compared to outside vacation, so I think the problems are not related to coffee (at least not too much).

I don't even feel "awoken" when I drink coffee, and it's always weird when I read people saying they drink coffee to feel more awake. Or to get more energy, or something.

So I don't think I've ever drank it for any reason other than the taste. Caffeinated or decaffeinated; a 325ml mug full of undiluted?[1][2] espresso, vs milk coffee; literally no (perceivable) difference to me other than taste.

If anything, when I want to "stay awake", I try to drink something very sweet. It doesn't "wake me up" like I hear people say with coffee, but it very slowly takes away just a little bit of sleepyness.

[1]: Probably the wrong term. But I mean, taking a coffee "capsule", serve with the recommended "size" (which is very small), and repeat with more "capsules" until the mug is full. I don't do this very often though.

[2]: And yes, I want to learn how to make myself a coffee that tastes almost as good, so that I can stop polluting with these disposable capsules.

Re: Impacts of lack of sleep

#143

Post by TeMPOraL »

sycren wrote: post #136
TeMPOraL wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wish this worked for me, but my brain straight up ignores[0] any kind of alarm clocks, music, light, etc. until it's something like 10:00 in the morning, or until a person wakes me up (and checks 5-10 minutes later if I'm actually up)[1]. So, shifting time to morning turned out to be impossible to maintain when I was living alone - I could hold such schedule for maybe a week at most, gradually oversleeping more and m…

Could devices to trigger other senses work? Like an aromatic diffuser on a timer switch that pumps out a scent, or a SAD lamp that simulates sunlight. A vibration device for the bed

Waking up is solved for me now - I'm married, my wife is an early bird (and our kids are the worms, they get up even earlier, or am I getting that adage wrong?), and she makes sure I get up (and stay up).

Right now, the bedtime is a problem - revenge bedtime procrastination + everyone getting used to me doing extra work overnight during some more busy times (I work remotely, so sometimes I handle kid emergencies during the day) + various other issues --> even if I had an "insta-sleep" pill, I'd have hard time getting myself to take it before 02:00.

A SAD lamp is something I'd like to try in general, maybe it'll improve my overall mood or something. I seem to function best in either near-complete darkness (i.e. only light being the screen, indicator LEDs and some street lamps in the distance outside), or very bright environments. The average brightness people I know keep at home makes me instantly sleepy, and I spend most of my cognitive resources on forcing myself to stay awake.

Re: Impacts of lack of sleep

#144

Post by specialist »

Agree with all. TIL: One way I know I'm behind on my sleep is I can't stop eating (noshing).

My insomnia journey...

I had turrible insomnia for decades, worse over time. I tried All The Things, multiple times. Which everyone should try, if only to learn more about oneself.

But if you try All The Things and still suffer, do not give up. Keep looking, keep asking.

Turns out my root cause was bone spurs on my spine. Tiny little pinches of my nerves, which prevented my mind and my body from ever relaxing.

It took years to get a proper diagnosis, separate from the insomnia concern, and then even more time to get an effective treatment.

Happily, "fixing" those bone spurs resolved most of my anxiousness and insomnia. Now I sleep like a corpse. It's glorious.

This is my personal example of an apparent phantom chronic illness. Where care providers offer what they know and then basically give up.

Which makes sense, for them, because healthcare is basically triage. A care provider does their best in moment given the knowledge and resources they have. Then they do the same for another dozen patients, every single day.

But you shouldn't give up.

If you're suffering, there's a cause. Keep asking. Keep searching. Someone out there has the answers you need.

Re: Impacts of lack of sleep

#145

Post by TeMPOraL »

bratbag wrote: post #139
000ooo000 wrote: post #5

For me, I find my sleep suffers because of what some describe as "revenge bedtime procrastination". When my job is shit (i.e. now), I'm more inclined to stay on the PC later doing things that bring me some level of joy, or play games to escape the mind spinning its wheels. I seem to more easily recognise that my job is unfulfilling because I'm staying up later or I'm dreading going to bed. Going to bed early for a go…

I've also noticed the opposite. During times when my job is satisfying and I'm on top of everything, I don't even want to touch my pc for fun. Satisfying work drives me towards social activities in my free time.

I'm a bit reverse. Anxiety drives me towards people. Being on top of everything at work, getting into the flow - I too don't want to touch my PC for fun, but I also don't want to talk to people, or do anything that would "flush the cache" or "page to disk" all the work stuff, because I feel that once I break my stride, I won't regain it any time soon.

It's perhaps irrational, but it's something I struggle with - my perfect way of working unfortunately goes against every social expectation, life/work balance stuff, etc.

Re: Impacts of lack of sleep

#146

Post by J_cst »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #107
J_cst wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also procrastinate bed time. I've always linked it to anxiety (non necessarily in strict medical terms/meaning). That's my rationale: In the evening the day's over and 'nothing can happen' anymore for that day, so I feel I can chill out. On the contrary, tomorrow 'anything has yet to happen' and I can have a feeling of worry. That's the reason I've given myself to procrastinate bed time. Not sure of that's the case…

This is me. For me, it's not about the next day, but exactly about that "nothing can happen" feeling - everyone is finally asleep, no one has any expectations towards me, nobody will be calling me (it's night, it's rude to call people at night), nor will they be texting me (they're normal people, they're already in beds, sleeping). It's the only time my body is able to relax a little. It's the only time I can think a…

This resonates with me a lot, thank you for sharing it.

Re: Impacts of lack of sleep

#147

Post by xyzelement »

jmkd wrote: post #112
xyzelement wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick advice - see if you can shift that to getting up earlier. You will probably spend the couple of hours in the morning in a way that sets you up for a better day vs staying up late sets you up for a bad tomorrow. I say this as an always "late" person who now tries to get up at 5 to work out and reflect, it's been very helpful.

I wish people would understand that "just get up early" simply does not and cannot work for a significant portion of the population (20-50% depending on which study you choose). Therefore it is aggravating advice to constantly receive, from those for whom it worked, to those for whom it won't.

I find your comment unhelpful. We have no indication that the person being responded to has a hard limitation vs suboptimal habits.

Not giving him advice because it might not help someone is the worst because it guarantees that it will not help him.

Re: Impacts of lack of sleep

#148

Post by TeMPOraL »

noufalibrahim wrote: post #106
xyzelement wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick advice - see if you can shift that to getting up earlier. You will probably spend the couple of hours in the morning in a way that sets you up for a better day vs staying up late sets you up for a bad tomorrow. I say this as an always "late" person who now tries to get up at 5 to work out and reflect, it's been very helpful.

Was going to suggest the same thing. A great way to break the cycle is to somehow wake up early one day and force yourself to not sleep. You'll feel very sleepy early in the night and will fall asleep.

I envy those for whom this is the case. For me, I might be dead tired during the day, but I will spontaneously regain energy in the evening - enough to delay my bedtime a couple hours again.

It's absurd and somewhat dangerous - if I ever pull an all-nighter on something, it's really important I force myself to go to sleep early the next day, because I will suddenly become full of energy again come 21:00 - 23:00, go to sleep late again, and suffer further come next morning.

Re: Impacts of lack of sleep

#149

Post by Macha »

Zenul_Abidin wrote: post #115
xyzelement wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick advice - see if you can shift that to getting up earlier. You will probably spend the couple of hours in the morning in a way that sets you up for a better day vs staying up late sets you up for a bad tomorrow. I say this as an always "late" person who now tries to get up at 5 to work out and reflect, it's been very helpful.

These days I sleep at around 8, and it made it much easier for me to get up at 5 and still get 8 hours of sleep. And then I have energy to do basically anything in those early hours. If I even get just 6 hours, I immediately feel crankiness the next day.

I finish work at like 6. Add an hour for cooking and eating dinner after that and it leaves 1 hour for personal activities with such a schedule. If I go to the office for a day, I don't get home until 7:30pm.

Re: Impacts of lack of sleep

#150

Post by randomcarbloke »

Barrin92 wrote: post #121
randomcarbloke wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for sure, I set the Set Daily Puzzle world record during a time of my life when I had been subsisting on an average of 1-2 hours sleep a night, if that. It's also the fluffiest thing I've seen on HN in a while.

it reminds me of Why We Sleep which turned out to be completely full of scientific errors ( https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/ ) Obviously that book sold like hot cakes. When it comes to sleep and diet people will repeat anything as long as it sounds intuitive.

Brilliant read, thank you for this!
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