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Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

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Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#141

Post by AlbertCory »

bellown wrote: post #133
binarymax wrote: post #103

It would be nice if instead of everyone hating on the prize, we could take a moment and reflect. Think of what this woman and many other women trapped in these regimes are going through, the sacrifices they've made, and the bravery they show to try to make things better. Think the prize is politicized and corrupt? Whatever - it's not about you or your opinion.

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I'm male, and I'm with you. Yes, this IS political, and what's your point? It's a thumb in the eye to one of the worst regimes on the planet. I'm sure this will piss off the mullahs, and what better reason than that?

People like her (whom I'd never heard of, sad to say) who put it all on the line to defend human rights -- if that's what the Peace Prize has evolved into, then good.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#142

Post by Luctct »

michaeltimo wrote: post #4
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #2

The prize is supposedly awarded to those who have "done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses." Hmmm. Well. I don't quite see how formenting revolution fits the bill, but the Peace Prize has been very strange of late in general. By its own lights, I don't see a single person or entity who would…

"Since World War II, the Peace Prize has principally been awarded to honour efforts in four main areas: arms control and disarmament, peace negotiation, democracy and human rights, and work aimed at creating a better organized and more peaceful world. In the 21st century the Nobel Committee has embraced efforts to limit the harm done by man-made climate change and threats to the environment as relevant to the Peace P…

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Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#143

Post by bnralt »

muniq wrote: post #127
bnralt wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ElBaradei won in 2005, when he was a vocal opponent of Bush's military interventions (Obama's prize in 2009 was likewise mainly a rebuke of Bush). Tawakkol Karman (2011) has been a vocal critic of Saudi Arabia. Willy Brandt received his prize specifically for increasing ties with the Eastern Bloc. In terms of prizes giving for those working against particular regimes, anti-apartheid activists have received the most (…

Gandhi - whose name has become synonymous with peace and non-violence - was nominated 3 times but didn't win. The evidence strongly suggests that the Nobel committee doesn't like giving the prize against anti-western dissidents until they absolutely have to, i.e. when not giving the prize would raise more eyebrows and damage the Nobel's reputation. The two anti-western dissidents that come to mind are Nelson Mandela…

> The two anti-western dissidents that come to mind are Nelson Mandela and (arguably) Martin Luther King. Again, they received the prize after achieving global fame and recognition.

Seems like a “no true Scotsman” argument. Naturally, the winners are going to often be prominent individuals.

> Tawakkol Karman (2011) is another dissident against a non-western country.

The previous poster specifically said “I don't see the award ever going to a rights activist fighting against the Saudi, Pakistani, or any other American-allied regimes,” so I brought up a recent activist that has been against the Saudi government (and I guess Malala Yousafzai could be viewed as critical of many parts of the Pakistani government).

> ElBaradei won the prize for his work in the IAEA (whose primary focus has been on non-western nations) -not for his opposition to the Iraq war - whose primary focus has been on non-western nations.

It was pretty obvious to everyone at the time that this (as well as Obama’s prize) was a direct rebuke against Bush’s foreign policy. Here’s the opening paragraph of the New York Times article about his award[1]:

> The Nobel Peace Prize was awarded Friday to the International Atomic Energy Agency and its chief, Mohamed ElBaradei, whom the Bush administration tried but failed to remove from his job just months ago.

> The award was a vindication of a man and an agency long at odds with President Bush and his administration over how to confront Iraq and Iran. It could strengthen the agency's position as conflicts loom over preventing Iran from obtaining fuel it could use for nuclear weapons and disarming North Korea.

> For most of the last year, the Bush administration had tried to block Dr. ElBaradei from assuming a third term as chief of the agency, a part of the United Nations, arguing that he would not be strong enough to face down Iran and the covert nuclear weapons program it is suspected of having. But the United States had no support from any of its allies, and ultimately had to withdraw its objections to Dr. ElBaradei's reappointment.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/08/front%20page/world/atomic...

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#144

Post by Gud »

screye wrote: post #136
Gud wrote: post #112

Well deserved. Iran has so much potential. It's extremely sad how a small group of extremists holds the entire country hostage.

Genuine question, doesn't the ultra-orthodox wing reflect the popular opinion of the country ? My understanding is that Iran has among the greatest Urban-Rural divides in the world, and that the rural population is large enough to democratically force their conservative views onto the urban population. Turkey seems to be in a similar position, but their proximity to NATO and Europe keeps them somewhat grounded. > sma…

The Iranian government has killed thousands of people and repressed other viewpoints not supported by the ruling elite.

It is possible the general population in Iran support this. All I know is that in countries where the people are allowed to voice their opinions freely, they generally oppose raping and torturing prisoners.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#145

Post by shihab »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #49
archon1410 wrote: post #7

I feel the Nobel prize was less for fighting for women's rights, and more for fighting against an anti-American, anti-Western government. For some reason, I don't see the award ever going to a rights activist fighting against the Saudi, Pakistani, or any other American-allied regimes. I of course don't ever see it going to someone fighting against the American regime itself, and its mass surveillance and war crimes,…

>For some reason, I don't see the award ever going to a rights activist fighting against the Saudi, Pakistani, or any other American-allied regimes. There have been a few, such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Ressa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigoberta_Mench%C3%BA

You're mistaken about Yasser Arafat. He wasn't awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for fighting Israeli apartheid; rather, he received it for ceasing that fight in line with the Oslo Accords- a deal brokered by the United States.

Here's a visual representation of why: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords#/media/File:Bill_...

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#146

Post by dragonwriter »

pipo234 wrote: post #12
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #2

The prize is supposedly awarded to those who have "done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses." Hmmm. Well. I don't quite see how formenting revolution fits the bill, but the Peace Prize has been very strange of late in general. By its own lights, I don't see a single person or entity who would…

The Nobel Peace Prize has historically been surrounded by the kind of ambivalent feelings you allude to. To name one: Hume & Trimble (1998) was considered ironic because it was viewed as kind of reward for ceasing violence they initially caused. Similar remarks were made in 1993 about Mandela and De Klerk. It can even be argued that Gorbachev and Carter had blood on their hands before becoming saints. Maybe this kind…

While De Klerk certainly participated in it, neither Mandela nor De Klerk started the system of violent racial oppression in South Africa.

Neither of them started the armed resistance against it, either, though Mandela obviously participated in that.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#147

Post by rsynnott »

archon1410 wrote: post #7

I feel the Nobel prize was less for fighting for women's rights, and more for fighting against an anti-American, anti-Western government. For some reason, I don't see the award ever going to a rights activist fighting against the Saudi, Pakistani, or any other American-allied regimes. I of course don't ever see it going to someone fighting against the American regime itself, and its mass surveillance and war crimes,…

> I of course don't ever see it going to someone fighting against the American regime itself

Martin Luther King Jr got one.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#148

Post by LindeBuzoGray »

binarymax wrote: post #103

It would be nice if instead of everyone hating on the prize, we could take a moment and reflect. Think of what this woman and many other women trapped in these regimes are going through, the sacrifices they've made, and the bravery they show to try to make things better. Think the prize is politicized and corrupt? Whatever - it's not about you or your opinion.

> Think of what this woman and many other women trapped in these regimes are going through

Iran had a parliament in 1953, when the US and UK launched operation Ajax after the prime Minister nationalized Iran's oil. The prime Minister was ousted, a dictator replaced him - who returned to Iran on a flight with Allen Dulles. The conservative mullahs were western allies in removing power from the parliament.

Then this structure the west put into place fell out of alignment with the west in 1979, and we suddenly hear an enormous amount of stated sympathy about "women trapped in these regimes". Sympathy that we didn't hear when the CIA was handing SAVAK lists of progressive, secular women to arrest or kill. It's farcical.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#149

Post by foogazi »

Luctct wrote: post #142
michaeltimo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Since World War II, the Peace Prize has principally been awarded to honour efforts in four main areas: arms control and disarmament, peace negotiation, democracy and human rights, and work aimed at creating a better organized and more peaceful world. In the 21st century the Nobel Committee has embraced efforts to limit the harm done by man-made climate change and threats to the environment as relevant to the Peace P…

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Wow, how did you come up with that Venn diagram?

The people that hate the Iranian regime AND hate America AND admire Barack Obama ?

Must be a small club

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#150

Post by muniq »

mhuffman wrote: post #113
binarymax wrote: post #103

It would be nice if instead of everyone hating on the prize, we could take a moment and reflect. Think of what this woman and many other women trapped in these regimes are going through, the sacrifices they've made, and the bravery they show to try to make things better. Think the prize is politicized and corrupt? Whatever - it's not about you or your opinion.

>Think the prize is politicized and corrupt? Whatever - it's not about you or your opinion. Here's a hot take -- I think all the Nobel Prizes, not just the Peace Price are politicized, corrupt, pop-culture-ish, and basically just in-group accolades! Similar to the Academy Awards.

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