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Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

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Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#141

Post by JumpCrisscross »

palata wrote: post #132
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> take e.g. the drone industry, they are like 10 years ahead of the Western world These developments started before Xi became dictator. That’s a turning point for China. Today, Chinese drones are no longer a class ahead of their peers. Which is surprising, because they once were.

> Today, Chinese drones are no longer a class ahead of their peers. They are more like 3-4 classes ahead, yes. The gap keeps increasing, it's quite amazing. Or was that not your point?

> are more like 3-4 classes ahead, yes

On what metric? The only one I can think of is cost, which is still within an order of magnitude ahead on account of economies of scale and efficiency of production. On raw capability, this is totally incorrect.

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#142

Post by humanlity »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #59
rado wrote: post #7

Yet various government agencies sidestep the GFW and use banned social media. Bizarre

Microsoft China has its own line into and out of China via China telecom that isn’t through the GFW, all legal and they wouldn’t be able to do anything in China otherwise. I’m sure lots of foreign companies have similar arrangements.

The price is overheight, not suit for a small business

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#143

Post by lziest »

b112 wrote: post #50
lziest wrote: post #4

The fine is actually 200 yuan, but the salary, over 1 million yuan, which he received while working remotely has been deemed as "illegal income" and subject to confiscation.

Having your income confiscated is very much a "fine".

There is a difference, at least in China. Confiscation of properties can happen immediately while the fine has to be paid later. On the contrary, there was another piece of ridiculous news in China: in year 2022, an old farmer profited 14 yuan in buying (from a neighbour) then selling 35kilo of celery, which were later found to contain exceeding amounts of pesticide. His profit was confiscated, and he was fined 50K yuan! He never paid the fine since he couldn't afford it. The fine was doubled. Eventually the fine was waived when the law enforcement agency sought a property confiscation in lieu of the fine through the courts.

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#144

Post by [deleted] »

datadeft wrote: post #62
bjornsing wrote: post #40

Where I live (Sweden) it’s legal to use GitHub (with or without a VPN). But if I fail to report 138000 USD in earnings I’d still be in for a world of hurt: First the tax authority would take about 100000-200000 USD from me. Then I’d be prosecuted for tax fraud. Nobody would be upset or come to my defense. Not saying I prefer the Chinese system, but it’s interesting that in this specific case it’s probably more lenien…

"If you crush a cockroach, you're a hero. If you crush a beautiful butterfly, you're a villain. Morals have aesthetic criteria." This applies to the context of west vs China. Everything China does is because of oppression and everything the west does is because of democracy and protecting you.

[deleted]

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#145

Post by whatshisface »

makeitdouble wrote: post #43
whatshisface wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How anyone can look at over a billion unique people and say "Chinese this" or "Chinese that" is as far beyond me as anything.

I think I'd take a "Ethiopians can't build an AWS rival", even if Ethiopians are unique and intelligent. But that wouldn't be true for China (don't know market sizes, but I'd assume Tencent's cloud offering for instance is somewhat viable ?)

...why couldn't Ethiopians build an AWS rival? Google can't build an AWS rival because (ultimately) AWS already exists in the market and has economies of scale. If Ethiopia banned AWS I cannot think of a single reason a cloud hosting provider with perhaps smaller data centers due to the smaller size of the market would show up in Ethiopia.

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#146

Post by b112 »

npteljes wrote: post #139
b112 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having your income confiscated is very much a "fine".

Not really. Confiscating the illegal earnings is not part of the punishment, the fine is just the extra part.

What?! He did the work, likely diligently and with aplomb. He performed excellent work, in exchange for money.

And then a third party, the government, who had no part in this, took money from him. No matter how it was assessed, was a fine.

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#147

Post by uranusjr »

winter_blue wrote: post #140
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VPNs are illegal in China in general, but China isn’t a rule of law country so that in itself isn’t very meaningful (free speech is guaranteed by the Chinese constitution for example, but that’s irrelevant). VPN usage is rarely prosecuted unless they want to get you on something (a basic thing in rule by law).

By your logic, doesn’t not enforcing some law make any country not be a “rule of law country”? By that principle, would most western countries failing to properly enforce drug make them be not “rule of law” countries?

I think the parent’s logic is the other way around: the rule of law isn’t overwhelmingly relevant in China, so it’s no surprise the VPN law isn’t enforced. You may want to contend if China has the rule of law, but that’s the premise in the parent message, not the conclusion, so you need to use something else to raise objections toward it.

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#148

Post by seanmcdirmid »

winter_blue wrote: post #140
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VPNs are illegal in China in general, but China isn’t a rule of law country so that in itself isn’t very meaningful (free speech is guaranteed by the Chinese constitution for example, but that’s irrelevant). VPN usage is rarely prosecuted unless they want to get you on something (a basic thing in rule by law).

By your logic, doesn’t not enforcing some law make any country not be a “rule of law country”? By that principle, would most western countries failing to properly enforce drug make them be not “rule of law” countries?

> By that principle, would most western countries failing to properly enforce drug make them be not “rule of law” countries?

It isn't binary. Whenever the Supreme Court in the USA makes a ruling on a 1st amendment case, remember that China has exactly the same amendment in its constitution. But ya, law interpretation and enforcement fall down, especially with respect to shoplifting and drug use, things that would be dealt with strongly in China (because context) and less strongly in the west (because context).

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#149

Post by palata »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #141
palata wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today, Chinese drones are no longer a class ahead of their peers. They are more like 3-4 classes ahead, yes. The gap keeps increasing, it's quite amazing. Or was that not your point?

> are more like 3-4 classes ahead, yes On what metric? The only one I can think of is cost, which is still within an order of magnitude ahead on account of economies of scale and efficiency of production. On raw capability, this is totally incorrect.

> On what metric?

Do you have one kind of drone that DJI produces (mini, mavic, phantom, matrice, ...) that you would not choose over... well over anything else?

I mean without political considerations (like commercial war and the fact that DJI got banned in the US, exactly because nobody can compete). Just based on the product.

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#150

Post by mindslight »

FredPret wrote: post #49
bjornsing wrote: post #40

Where I live (Sweden) it’s legal to use GitHub (with or without a VPN). But if I fail to report 138000 USD in earnings I’d still be in for a world of hurt: First the tax authority would take about 100000-200000 USD from me. Then I’d be prosecuted for tax fraud. Nobody would be upset or come to my defense. Not saying I prefer the Chinese system, but it’s interesting that in this specific case it’s probably more lenien…

Economic freedom is second among the freedoms only after physical safety. With enough money you can buy all the others, and all the others exist primarily to ensure you can be safe and end up with enough money. This fact is ignored, overlooked, or pooh-poohed by those whose ambitions for society requires a large state. To maximize human freedom, there's an optimal balance to be struck between a stateless society and…

Yes, wealth can mitigate attacks on your freedom. But for everyone to financially maintain their other freedoms requires a degree of economic freedom not afforded by basically any country on earth. Instead we mostly have managed fiat currencies that are continually inflated, vacuuming real wealth towards a politically-connected center, and making it so that only a fraction of the population can ever be capable of amassing enough wealth to purchase freedom. So your argument is a bit specious in the world we actually have, and ignoring that it falls apart is a recipe for justifying oppression.

Coming at it from another direction, I'd say that government guarantees of freedom are essentially non-fungible assets that resist the ability for lopsided/captured/coercive markets to financially strip them.

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