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Eliminating radio interference from Apple charger

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Re: Eliminating radio interference from Apple charger

#141
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be using a device and it might not harm you personally, but it could harm anyone around you using these frequencies. This includes airplanes and ground control, and boats. Your device's interference could cause problems or even life threatening dangerous situations. That's why it's illegal in many countries to cause too much radio interference (there's always some).

> but it could harm anyone around you using these frequencies. Not really. Part of the FCC certification process is that devices need to accept interference from other devices operating within the limits. Go read the FCC sticker on the bottom of any nearby device if you don’t believe me. It’s spelled out in the text. The only reason the author had a problem is they put it right next to, quite literally, a highly sens…

> Part of the FCC certification process is that devices need to accept interference from other devices operating within the limits

Note that only some classes of device have this requirement to accept all interference from devices operating within the limits. For some classes of devices if a consumer device interferes with then the consumer device's owner is responsible for stopping the interference even if the consumer device is operating entirely within limits.

The FCC regulations are divided into several parts, covering different devices and services. For example Part 87 covers various aviation radio services and devices, Part 97 covers Amateur Radio, and Part 20 covers mobile phones.

For any given frequency there might be devices or services covered under several different parts that can radiate on that frequency. There will generally be some kind of hierarchy among them where devices are not allowed to interfere with devices higher in the hierarchy and must accept interference from devices higher in the hierarchy.

The Part that covers much of consumer electronics other than mobile phones is Part 15. For most common consumer devices, if it is not a mobile phone and you did not need to get a license from the FCC to use it it probably falls under Part 15. This includes "intentional radiators", which are devices that are intended to emit radio such as WiFi routers, "unintentional radiators", which are devices that intentionally generate radio frequency energy within the device but it is meant to stay within wires or within the device, and "incidental radiators", which are devices that aren't intended to generate radio frequency energy but do so as a side effect such as DC motors and mechanical light switches.

Part 15 is at the bottom of the hierarchy.

For Part 15 devices, 47 CFR 15.5(b) says:

> Operation of an intentional, unintentional, or incidental radiator is subject to the conditions that no harmful interference is caused and that interference must be accepted that may be caused by the operation of an authorized radio station, by another intentional or unintentional radiator, by industrial, scientific and medical (ISM) equipment, or by an incidental radiator.

Other Parts can have quite different rules. For example Part 95 Subpart C, which covers radio control such as is commonly used in RC models, says this:

> (a) RCRS stations must not cause interference to:

> (1) Authorized radio operations in the 72–76 MHz band, including radio remote control of industrial equipment on the same or adjacent channels; or,

> (2) Broadcast television reception on TV Channels 4 or 5.

> (b) RCRS operations are not afforded protection from interference caused by the operation of:

> (1) Industrial, scientific or medical devices (see part 18 of this chapter) operating in the 26–28 MHz band; and,

> (2) Fixed and mobile stations in other services operating on the same or adjacent channels.

For Amateur ("ham") Radio, the interference rules are much more extensive, because hams are authorized to use a lot of frequency bands that overlap other services. Here's a link if anyone is curious [1].

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/97.303

Re: Eliminating radio interference from Apple charger

#142
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree that its fine to not include it, had they not switched to usb-c right when they stopped including bricks so all my new devices came with usb-c chargers but I only have usb-a bricks

To be fair, they did include a USB-C charger with the iPhone 11 for one year. But yeah, people on a two-year upgrade (or longer) cadence will likely not have had an Apple USB-C power adapter included with any of their devices.

Only the Pro models, the base model still came with a 5W A brick

Re: Eliminating radio interference from Apple charger

#143
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

where can one buy a bag of ferrites?

Check out https://proaudioeng.com/fair-rite-ferrites/ . Also dxengineering has them.

Type 31:

> Mix 31 excellent for 1-10 MHz common mode suppression, then about same as 43 up to 250 MHz, NOT recommended for multi-ratio impedance transformers (baluns/ununs) due to material characteristics and power handling capability – ok for ham radio 1:1 feed line choke applications. Curie temperature >130 C

But in looking for concise relevant information i found https://palomar-engineers.com/ferrite-products/ferrite-cores... which i quoted above

edit: also, thank you

Re: Eliminating radio interference from Apple charger

#145
post #26
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably like 98% of customers already have a USB power source of some kind, so that seems like a reasonable cut corner.

Not really, modern phones have fast charge capability that's been improving generation over generetion, so what happens is new chargers are bought to take advantage of that. The older gen chargers are E-waste either way, and apple gets to charge us for something they should have included.

iPhone fast charging hasn't really changed over the years, it's still only 25W max, which can be satisfied even by early USB PD chargers.

Androids have their fancy ~100W fast charging where all of the charge controlling is in the brick for thermal reasons and those require special proprietary chargers that become obsolete after a generation, but Apple doesn't do that.

Re: Eliminating radio interference from Apple charger

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How did this thing get FCC approval? Looking at the radio display, it seems like the peak power is about 7-8 S-units. At VHF, that would be about -100dBm; or about 100 femto-watts. I presume that the charger is pretty near the radio. With free-space path loss being inverse square law, it's essentially going to be completely negligible within a very short distance. Oh, and if the antenna is indeed near the charger (…

I use HF radio all the time from inside my home, in the middle of one of the densest cities in BC. Within the past few weeks I've made contacts with stations in Alaska, Belize, Costa Rica, Colombia, Russia and Japan with a radio inside my home in Vancouver, Canada. HF is 10000% usable in urban areas. It's not optimal or perfect, but it's just fine.

Would not a persons specific setup have significant effect on the interference situation, - The radio would be in a completely shielded metal box? - so no interference that way directly , not via the antenna input. Outside antenna , with a shielded feed in cable would also reduce interference from these devices like small power supplies that just produce interfearance to a few meters distance ???

Re: Eliminating radio interference from Apple charger

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t carbon fiber conductive itself?

Carbon fibre is definitely conductive. A couple of years ago I measured a 1” diameter tube and got about 15ohms/ft.

Right, it's a resistor. This is a problem for airframes and wind turbine blades. Its resistance is too high to deal well with lightning. So aluminum is needed to provide a conductive path.

Re: Eliminating radio interference from Apple charger

#149
post #67

Pretty detailed and creative write-up, but my first thought was “how would it have worked with a 20000mAh battery ?” - admittedly a cludge, but could be much simpler..

How are you going to get that 20Ah battery into an iphone?

Why would one need to get it into the iPhone/iPad ? Just use a power bank. (I wonder if the PD circuitry would be making the interference in its own right, though).

https://www.amazon.de/Samsung-Powerbank-Capacity-Charging-In...

Re: Eliminating radio interference from Apple charger

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How did this thing get FCC approval? Looking at the radio display, it seems like the peak power is about 7-8 S-units. At VHF, that would be about -100dBm; or about 100 femto-watts. I presume that the charger is pretty near the radio. With free-space path loss being inverse square law, it's essentially going to be completely negligible within a very short distance. Oh, and if the antenna is indeed near the charger (…

I use HF radio all the time from inside my home, in the middle of one of the densest cities in BC. Within the past few weeks I've made contacts with stations in Alaska, Belize, Costa Rica, Colombia, Russia and Japan with a radio inside my home in Vancouver, Canada. HF is 10000% usable in urban areas. It's not optimal or perfect, but it's just fine.

As someone who has always been interested in getting into ham radio - do you have any pointers on where to start or what to avoid?
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