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Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

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Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#141

Post by blahedo »

Prophasi wrote: post #134

One potential reason the guys in the channel get irritated with it, apart from them being actually sexist and therefore uncomfortable/guilty, is that your starting assumption that they WERE sexist was wrong. To have a preachy bot post nominally inspirational quotes from women, with the ostensible goal of demonstrating with child-like simplicity that women are people too, would get on my nerves for two immediate reaso…

> I get it, I get it! How many cliches do I have to scroll past before we reach mission accomplished?

I don't know, you tell me? If you are objecting to the OP's bot but not to the original TWSS bot, it sounds like the mission hasn't been accomplished.

> your starting assumption that they WERE sexist was wrong.

You sure about that?

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#142

Post by tjstankus »

Wow. I would argue that you have quite a bit more than "relatively few moments of 'brogrammer' culture" there. A TWSS bot? I can't imagine that ever being okay on any dev team I've ever worked on, including my present team which includes no women. Good on you for fighting back in a way which really speaks to those who needed to hear it most.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#143

Post by wpietri »

paulhauggis wrote: post #137

She has a huge problem with "that's what she said", but no problem with using the term “brogrammer culture”. If she was a co-worker and used that term, I would go to HR because it offends me. Why? to make a point about the ridiculousness of our society. You get the least bit offended and instead of just ignoring it, you need to make the person go away/get fired. It reminds me of Elementary school. When is this bullsh…

You realize that bro culture and brogramming are actual, existing things started by guys, yes?

And you also realize that she intentionally didn't go to HR about the problem?

And you realize that women have been oppressed in our culture by men for, oh, millennia?

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#145

Post by arjunnarayan »

hythloday wrote: post #16

"It has been fascinating to watch the ongoing reactions. There have been complaints that we have too many bots in the channel now. There have been complaints about it spamming the channel. There were several “Make them shut up!” responses. These are not reactions I have seen the other bots elicit, certainly not with such intensity. One person even complained about the name being too long, though to his credit he real…

She really should write a bot that replies with passive aggressive "lighten up", or "its only a joke" to any instance of complaints.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#146

Post by ugh »

rada wrote: post #138
ugh wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really the case that someone has to pay child support for a child that is proven to be not theirs? I did some superficial googling and found the case of one man who has to pay child support even though a DNA test proved he is not the father, because he missed all the deadlines for challenging the ruling. That seems like an unfortunate edge case to me, not some general pattern one has to be worried about. I thin…

It depends on your definition of "not theirs". The law doesn't look at biology only. (Same gender parents, adoptive parents, grandparents as primary caregivers, etc). If you accept a child as your own for several years, the law is likely to look at them as yours regardless of DNA. I think that in the majority of cases, this probably works out for the better.

Well, that makes perfect sense. I do not understand what’s “anti-male” about it.

When it comes to child support, who matters first and foremost is the child. That’s who it’s all about.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#147

Post by AkThhhpppt »

ElliotMingee wrote: post #124
AkThhhpppt wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And your qualifications for being able to make this decision for us all are? They wouldn't stop using the bot when she asked them to because it made her uncomfortable. It's been pointed out in these comments that she could have sued this company into a hole in the ground with a chat log and that fact. I think "Judge will probably say it is" says it's sexist.

That's not how logic works... I don't mean to be condescending but, when a word has a specific definition, it's pretty straightforward to determine whether or not it accurately describes a situation. Consider it like a mathematical proof: credentials, judges, and everything else are irrelevant if you've shown the word doesn't apply.

Whose definition, though?

"It is argued that sexual objectification is a form of sexism" - http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Sexism

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#148

Post by wpietri »

cantastoria wrote: post #136
unalone wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? What do you want? We want women to shut up and stop telling us that there's a problem with how we behave, because it's rude to tell people there's something innately wrong with their behavior. Also it takes so much time and effort on our parts to try and behave like better people that it hardly seems like we should bother. The problem, for many people, is not that the issue is being handled indelicately. It's…

Dear Sir, We noticed you have made some potentially inflammatory comments directed towards women. We have started to monitor your account and will shut it down if you continue to use this type of language. Please read the following guidelines that explain how to correctly discuss and think about these issues: "What things are most useful for men to keep in mind when discussing theories or topics relating to gender?"…

Yes! Also, what's up with Miss Manners suggesting other ways for people to be polite? Why is she keeping me down with her "chew with your mouth closed" and "use the toilet paper, not the hand towels" bullshit! No one can police me! The constitution say so! I DO WHAT I WANT!

Or, and I'm just thinking out loud here, we could recognize that, especially in professional contexts, we actually want to behave towards our colleagues in ways that are polite and respectful. And maybe we could also recognize that our society has finally been reducing institutional sexism over the last century or so, and that there's still some work left to do.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#149

Post by mseebach »

AkThhhpppt wrote: post #128
mseebach wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It bears mentioning that the TWSS bot itself is probably meant ironically - it's satirizing the fact that some people almost mechanically tags on TWSS to anything remotely relevant by actually doing it mechanically. https://github.com/bvandenbos/twss

http://fuckyeahdisingenuousliberal.tumblr.com/post/180255328... *Yes, people are so sick of "but I'm being ironic" there's Tumblr memes about it.

"People" are so tired of "i'm being ironic" that they made a tumbler full of "ironic" racism and sexism. Gotcha.

I disagree with the assertion in the linked blog post that it's not possible to satirize -isms - in fact, I firmly believe it's necessary to expose the utter ridiculousness of these beliefs. Which, incidentally, is what the OP did with her anti-bot.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#150

Post by roguecoder »

rimantas wrote: post #92
unalone wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they're actually funny (most of the "That's what she said" jokes are not), why not? It depends on the audience. I think that sexist jokes are in as poor taste in a workplace as racist jokes would be. I'd also be against black jokes or Mexican jokes or Jewish jokes or jokes about Catholic pedophilia. Even if the extent of the joke was something like "I'm not going to the pub with you all, I'm such a Jew", I'd fee…

And in the end there will be no jokes. > I think we all agree that if somebody's feeling upset by > the jokes, it's not a huge loss to our comedic palettes > to have to find another source of humor, right? No. I strongly strongly disagree. I don't want a thermal dead of society, I don't want knee-jerk reaction to anything I say because I just mentioned some forbidden word, no matter with what intention and what conte…

At the end, there will only be actually-amusing jokes, instead of cheap shots that are only found funny by people that think group X is enlightened normal people and everyone else deserves to be laughed at and ridiculed.

I think you can't make or enjoy snuff films without being at least really creepy. Crime fiction is far removed from the crimes it depicts: jokes are a vibrant part of the ongoing process that creates social norms.

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