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AWS Customers Cannot Escape IPv4

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Re: AWS Customers Cannot Escape IPv4

#141

Post by virtuallynathan »

grogenaut wrote: post #134
mabbo wrote: post #104

Many years ago when I was a junior dev at Amazon, there was a massive project internally to split up every internal system into regional versions with limited gateways allowing calls between regions. The reason? We had run out of internal IPv4 addresses. The Principal PM in charge of the "regionalization" effort was asked in a Q&A "why didn't we just switch to IPv6?". Her answer was something along the lines of "The…

I believe the PM was Laura Grit, who was actually a TPM I believe. Laura is a Distinguished Engineer now. She seems to constantly do massive scale projects. IPv4 being a smaller one now. Sadly I can't share some of the big projects she's doing now. I've gotten some sage advice from her on a few occasions that she had time and appreciate it.

Yep, she was behind regionalization and IPv6 and such. I recall reading the same the the parent comment talks about.

Re: AWS Customers Cannot Escape IPv4

#142

Post by devwastaken »

mabbo wrote: post #104

Many years ago when I was a junior dev at Amazon, there was a massive project internally to split up every internal system into regional versions with limited gateways allowing calls between regions. The reason? We had run out of internal IPv4 addresses. The Principal PM in charge of the "regionalization" effort was asked in a Q&A "why didn't we just switch to IPv6?". Her answer was something along the lines of "The…

Even cheap consumer hardware supports ipv6. There are significant financial incentives to continue the capitalism of ipv4 addresses. Like NFT's - an artificially limited capital. To create more addresses means more competition, loss of capital. Therefore they will spend billions on continually reworking internal IPV4 than going for the proper solution.

Re: AWS Customers Cannot Escape IPv4

#143

Post by JackSlateur »

cduzz wrote: post #124
JackSlateur wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private link is a clever way to implement real network segmentation That is, when you have a customer in some network and a provider in another network, you had to implement full connectivity between the customer and the provider With private link, you can remove all that connectivity, and instead expose the provider' service to the customer The service, nothing more, so just one endpoint This is really good from a s…

The IPv6 version of this would be ... 1. get list of customer netblocks 2. setup "internal" service(s) for customers 3. setup firewall rules to allow customer service allow list 4. setup DNS records 5. tell customers DNS and API targets

There is no "ipv6 version of this", private links have no business with layer 3 stuff

Re: AWS Customers Cannot Escape IPv4

#144

Post by tormeh »

It's not that people dislike IPv6 or like IPv4, it's that network people are comfortable with IPv4 and all the extra tech surrounding it. They know it works, so there's no technological risk. There's nothing new to learn. It's cheap. There's nothing your average business wants to do that can't be done on IPv4 that can on IPv6. The ROI of just paying for IPv4 addresses and associated tech/services is undeniable.

Re: AWS Customers Cannot Escape IPv4

#145

Post by NBJack »

Twirrim wrote: post #126
mabbo wrote: post #104

Many years ago when I was a junior dev at Amazon, there was a massive project internally to split up every internal system into regional versions with limited gateways allowing calls between regions. The reason? We had run out of internal IPv4 addresses. The Principal PM in charge of the "regionalization" effort was asked in a Q&A "why didn't we just switch to IPv6?". Her answer was something along the lines of "The…

I remember the regionalisation, that was "fun" to be on the sidelines for (I was in a newer service that was regionalised from the get-go). I don't remember who the PM was for that one, but I remember that being when I truly came to respect the value that a TPM can add. You're right about the cost and need to replace network equipment being one of the strong reasons why they didn't. Amazon used its own in-house desig…

Were they also by chance considered accelerators for encrypted traffic?

I'm not privy to details, but I recall once when a mandate was issued to a Java platform to remove an outdated encryption protocol (mandated by Amazon Infosec). The change was made and rolled out with little fanfare.

A few weeks later, a large outage of Amazon Video (which used said platform) occurred on a Friday evening. Root cause? The network hardware accelerators were only setup to use that outdated protocol, which in turn meant that encryption was happening in software instead. Under load, the video hosting eventually caved.

Might be specific to the hardware used for Amazon retail, but it reinforces the point of their home grown (and now aging) stack.

Re: AWS Customers Cannot Escape IPv4

#146

Post by housemusicfan »

mabbo wrote: post #104

Many years ago when I was a junior dev at Amazon, there was a massive project internally to split up every internal system into regional versions with limited gateways allowing calls between regions. The reason? We had run out of internal IPv4 addresses. The Principal PM in charge of the "regionalization" effort was asked in a Q&A "why didn't we just switch to IPv6?". Her answer was something along the lines of "The…

Hanlon's razor applies here.

There is no reason any company of any size should run out of IPv4 addresses internally, IF they are doing proper IP management. If I were to wager a guess I'd say there was a lot of waste going on, issuing /24s or larger to teams when all they need are /29s etc. It adds up over time. Once they exhaust private IP space they can always buy more at auction. They are Amazon after all, there's no shortage of money. This is just mismanagement of resources.

Re: AWS Customers Cannot Escape IPv4

#147

Post by nerdponx »

icedchai wrote: post #111
Varriount wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? What's the (supposed) fear?

It's simple fear of the unknown. Many folks haven't learned it, so they just turn it off... Ignore it, kick the can down the road.

It's individuals responding to the incentives before them. If something goes wrong because they're using IPv6, it's their fault. If you never upgrade anything until you're forced to, then you can never break anything by upgrading, and you're never seen as a "stuff breaker".

Re: AWS Customers Cannot Escape IPv4

#149

Post by luhn »

mjevans wrote: post #3

It would really help if there were real ISP competition in the USA. There's only one actually broadband ISP provider where I rent, which is in the suburbs near Seattle. It's NOT a rural area by any definition, and yet Comcast is my only option. Their price and service reflect that reality...

Consumers don't know or care about IPv6, so competition won't incentivize ISPs to implement it.

Funny that you complain about Comcast, when I was with Comcast I actually had native IPv6. With my current provider I only have IPv6 through NAT46.

Re: AWS Customers Cannot Escape IPv4

#150

Post by ruiseal »

The "cannot escape IPv4" is apt because while you can setup an IPv6 only VPC so many things break; from various AWS services to package repositories [0]. So then you're stuck either enabling IPv4 or running a NAT64 gateway (or trusting someone to run one for you [1]).

[0] https://blog.devopstom.com/ipv6-only-ec2/ [1] https://nat64.net and http://v4-frontend.netiter.com

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