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Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

newsroom.toyota.eu

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Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#141

Post by _hypx »

theshrike79 wrote: post #134
_hypx wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thousands of people refuel with hydrogen regularly. There is no evidence of real danger. The problem isn't that you can't live with a BEV, it's that you don't have to. People are "fighting the last war." There is a way of making an EV that has zero compromises compared to ICE cars. BEVs in that context are coming obsolete or perhaps niche cars.

Thousands of enthusiastic early adopters. Could Grandma Jones from two houses over, who just turned 80 do it?

Yes, in fact the early adopters are just normal people.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#142

Post by theshrike79 »

_hypx wrote: post #136
theshrike79 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen doesn't work with pipelines, the molecule size is too small. The losses would be uneconomical and possibly dangerous. Currently the grid over here is producing 17g of CO2/kWh, pretty much 90-95% is either nuclear or renewables. We're also exporting a portion of our excess to neighbouring countries. The fact that Americans can't modernise their grid doesn't apply to the whole world, you see.

That's just blatantly false: https://www.gasworld.com/story/wood-to-expand-us-hydrogen-pi... In reality, hydrogen is much cheaper than expanding the grid. You are basically dismissing basic physics with nationalism. Whichever country you're from, it too will find out that is cheaper to build a hydrogen network rather than massive grid expansion.

Our grid already feeds 2-3kW to pretty much every parking spot because of block heaters needed to get ICE vehicles running in the winter. The grid needs exactly zero changes for an EV future. A few last-mile upgrades maybe, but nothing major. This is according to the government organisation that handles the grid infrastructure.

As for "hydrogen network", we have pretty much zero infrastructure bringing natural gas or any kind of gas to residential homes. I think the capital city used to have a gas pipeline, but it got dismantled and people just use portable CNG tanks.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#143

Post by _hypx »

theshrike79 wrote: post #142
_hypx wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just blatantly false: https://www.gasworld.com/story/wood-to-expand-us-hydrogen-pi... In reality, hydrogen is much cheaper than expanding the grid. You are basically dismissing basic physics with nationalism. Whichever country you're from, it too will find out that is cheaper to build a hydrogen network rather than massive grid expansion.

Our grid already feeds 2-3kW to pretty much every parking spot because of block heaters needed to get ICE vehicles running in the winter. The grid needs exactly zero changes for an EV future. A few last-mile upgrades maybe, but nothing major. This is according to the government organisation that handles the grid infrastructure. As for "hydrogen network", we have pretty much zero infrastructure bringing natural gas or…

I'm sure your personal situation is magically ideal for BEVs. But that is an anecdote and not the general solution.

Hydrogen is a lot cheaper to move around than electricity. Regardless of where you are now, it is more logical to build the hydrogen network rather than expand the grid: https://www.brinknews.com/could-hydrogen-replace-the-need-fo...

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#144

Post by theshrike79 »

_hypx wrote: post #143
theshrike79 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our grid already feeds 2-3kW to pretty much every parking spot because of block heaters needed to get ICE vehicles running in the winter. The grid needs exactly zero changes for an EV future. A few last-mile upgrades maybe, but nothing major. This is according to the government organisation that handles the grid infrastructure. As for "hydrogen network", we have pretty much zero infrastructure bringing natural gas or…

I'm sure your personal situation is magically ideal for BEVs. But that is an anecdote and not the general solution. Hydrogen is a lot cheaper to move around than electricity. Regardless of where you are now, it is more logical to build the hydrogen network rather than expand the grid: https://www.brinknews.com/could-hydrogen-replace-the-need-fo...

The keynote speaker at the Hydrogen World Congress 2022 disagrees with you: https://vimeo.com/761934482

According to him transporting H2 is THE biggest problem. There are too many conversion losses in the process.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#145

Post by _hypx »

theshrike79 wrote: post #144
_hypx wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure your personal situation is magically ideal for BEVs. But that is an anecdote and not the general solution. Hydrogen is a lot cheaper to move around than electricity. Regardless of where you are now, it is more logical to build the hydrogen network rather than expand the grid: https://www.brinknews.com/could-hydrogen-replace-the-need-fo...

The keynote speaker at the Hydrogen World Congress 2022 disagrees with you: https://vimeo.com/761934482 According to him transporting H2 is THE biggest problem. There are too many conversion losses in the process.

That's Michael Liebriech, notorious anti-hydrogen advocate. He's completely wrong and not an expert on the subject at all.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#149

Post by creshal »

jacknews wrote: post #147

I'll believe it when I see it. There seems to be a lot of noise, confusion and FUD coming from Toyota lately.

> There seems to be a lot of noise, confusion and FUD coming from Toyota lately.

Not really? The old CEO with his irrational hate of all-electric cars left, and Toyota is now free to catch up with the rest of the industry. And the best way to catch up has always been to leapfrog a tech generation ahead, rather than trying to copy what the competition designed last year.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#150

Post by Jyaif »

The headline does not match the content of the article:

"At a news conference last week, Toyota president Koji Sato also admitted that production volumes of solid-state batteries were likely to be small when the company rolls them out in electric vehicles as early as 2027."

and in fact Toyota may actually be late to the game:

"Other companies have also made progress recently. Chinese battery maker CATL revealed it was preparing to mass-produce its semi-solid batteries before the year’s end, while South Korea’s Samsung SDI has completed a fully automated pilot line for solid-state batteries."

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