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New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

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Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#141
post #79
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oswald was a marine sharpshooter, and it took him 3 shots with a scoped rifle (probably at point blank range, though I don't know the ballistics of that gun). That suggests it wasn't Oswald. Though even then Oswald clearly would have been standing next to the unknown shooter urging him to do it.

TIL what “point blank” actually means. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-blank_range

Ha, I had always assumed it meant something on the order of inches.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#142
post #98

Even if Landis is being honest to the best of his ability, this account seems suspect for one simple reason: human memory is incredibly unreliable even in routine cases. Considering the stress and trauma around witnessing and being so close to an awful event like that, as well as the amount of time that has passed, I don't see how we can consider this story to be even remotely reliable. He may truly remember these ev…

My dad kept a diary during his WW2 duty. In his 80's, he read it and was shocked to discover it did not line up with his memories.

Interesting! Without going into personal details, can you explain what sort of incongruence he found between his diary and his memory?

I sometimes keep a diary, for example when I go on long trips that are different from my day-to-day life. I try to be as accurate as possible, but sometimes i notice what i write isn't fully representative of my state of mind at the time, simply because when you're writing stuff down (especially when you're writing with a pen and paper (slow!)), you can never fully capture all the concurrent thoughts and emotions you're experiencing, so its impossible for a diary to be fully accurate. Undoubtedly, e.g. Elizabeth Loftus has done a lot of prominent research in that field, our memories tend to be fallible, but maybe that's part of the reason?

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#143
post #69

The recollections of an 88 year old person about an event 60 years ago are simply not credible. He may truly remember picking up the bullet, but that doesn't mean it actually happened. Since he didn't mention it in his memos at the time, it probably didn't.

> The recollections of an 88 year old person about an event 60 years ago are simply not credible. My experience with aging family members is that their memory of old events tends to improve as their short-term memory seems to get worse. I've had family memebers not remember where an object is, and from their nursing home bed, when asked about "what happened to ___?" reply with remarkable accuracy - to the point we we…

I have had aging family members who remembered things that cannot possibly have happened. Going beyond anecdotes, false memories are a well known and empirically studied effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hypothetical: They checked with an agent who is deep / high up in some foreign agency and he said "wasnt us." that agent retired but helped recruit others. those may have retired and helped recruit others. Just that one connection in a file, "we asked agent $name and he said $agency knew nothing" might be justifiable to keep secret if theres a connection to someone still active.

> Hypothetical: They checked with an agent who is deep / high up in some foreign agency and he said "wasnt us." that agent retired but helped recruit others. those may have retired and helped recruit others. > Just that one connection in a file, "we asked agent $name and he said $agency knew nothing" might be justifiable to keep secret if theres a connection to someone still active. The names of the agents would be r…

It’s not just names but also things like places, times, methods of communication, etc. which could be use to narrow things down. If there was a high-level KGB officer whose cooperation hadn’t previously been recognized they don’t want to inspire new investigation into what else that person or their handlers did.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#145

To those who haven't seen it, I'd really recommend Lemmino's video on the assassination https://youtu.be/5u7euN1HTuU?feature=shared He dives pretty deep into the details, and it helped me form my own opinion of what probably happened

So, in the beginning, they play recordings. But the recordings, in particular that of Oswald's wife, sound pretty unnatural, including the interviewer. On the website linked, there are sources, but they are text only. Were those interviews "recreated" for the video, as far as you know?

Edit: it is mentioned (not very clearly) at the end that the recordings were "voiced" by other people. So that answers my question.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#146
I didn't read the article but a few months ago I randomly came across https://www.posner.com/case-closed and gave it a read. I haven't really read much else about the Kennedy assassination and the various conspiracy theories (certainly no other 400p books on the subject) but came away from the reading pretty impressed with the thoroughness of the argument. Spoiler alert, the argument is that the official story that Oswald acted alone is almost certainly correct and evidence to the contrary is entirely unconvincing when examined in detail.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#147
post #98

Even if Landis is being honest to the best of his ability, this account seems suspect for one simple reason: human memory is incredibly unreliable even in routine cases. Considering the stress and trauma around witnessing and being so close to an awful event like that, as well as the amount of time that has passed, I don't see how we can consider this story to be even remotely reliable. He may truly remember these ev…

Just to reiterate and point it out, this was 60 years ago.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#148
At this point the effects of the JFK assassination are so far back in history that new knowledge of possibly real and alternative sequences of events should have little impact on society as it is now. Let’s say it was orchestrated by political enemies—what effect would this have on things today? The state of US government is so dramatically different from back then.

This kind of discussion is really only interesting from a historical perspective. It doesn’t really have any bearing on modern politics or society.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the Warren Commission, the bullet was on Connally's stretcher and presumably fell out of Connally. So if true (not that we can really know at this point) if the pristine bullet was retrieved from Kennedy's car then yes, that would upend everything.

They were in the same car

Ah, thanks. Sorry. I meant "Kennedy's car seat" and not, "Kennedy's car."

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#150
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad kept a diary during his WW2 duty. In his 80's, he read it and was shocked to discover it did not line up with his memories.

Interesting! Without going into personal details, can you explain what sort of incongruence he found between his diary and his memory? I sometimes keep a diary, for example when I go on long trips that are different from my day-to-day life. I try to be as accurate as possible, but sometimes i notice what i write isn't fully representative of my state of mind at the time, simply because when you're writing stuff down…

It was about what transpired on the missions.

When I was writing a paper on the history of D, I had kept a lot of records, such as emails. I was often surprised when the details didn't quite line up with my memories.

This is one reason why one cannot get a fair trial 40 years after the fact, if any of it relies on eyewitness testimony.

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