As a programmer of over 30 years I still have never used Usenet and the reason is the barrier to entry. There is way too much friction. You need a paid (!) subscription to a provider, potentially a subscription to an indexer, plus client software. All of this to access what is essentially a pure text forum. Frankly I am not interested in jumping through hoops to access something which an "average person" would have n…
> There is way too much friction A lot of the early ISPs, 1993-early 2000s, had free nntp/usenet services. The "friction" of using usenet was not any greater that the friction of launching an email client, an ftp or gopher session, or launching Mosaic. At the time there were many easy-to-use featureful nntp clients across most computing platforms. I remember liking MT-Newswatcher quite a bit as well as Nuntius. The U…
USENET rises again?
141–150 of 235 posts
Re: USENET rises again?
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
It still does that.
Didn't a lot of servers just stop carrying the binaries newsgroups, or never bothered carrying them in the first place? Even without considering piracy, binaries tended to place a burden on the server provider since the messages tended to be much larger. (Even a small image/program in the 10's of kB would be larger than a heavily quoted message.
Re: USENET rises again?
#143I was in an AI conference yesterday, and there was a bunch of discussion in the chat about Slack channels, Discord servers, etc. So I was literally just lamenting the state of shared discussion forums, and commented that we all need to go back to Usenet and drop all these lame "walled garden" proprietary forums. I'd like to tell people "install Thunderbird, sign up for a free Usenet provider, and join comp.ai, comp.m…
The spam is the biggest issue. We never solved it there, and it's only being controlled on usenet's imitators through tight control, which is not a feature of usenet. One setup I could see working is a pubkey setup where anyone who posts, always encrypts with their private key, and anyone you want to hear from, you add their public key to your list of keys you decrypt to read. Aggregators can occupy public keys as th…
I believe it was due to AOL and CompuServe forums, which were most importantly, new, novel, friendly and easy. Technical people were "above" AOL and so those Usenet communities survived a few more years, but ultimately succumbed to web forums which were superior to Usenet in almost every way.
Unfortunately, web forums were mostly hollowed out due to social media, and now that people are sick and tired of that, the simplicity and "innocence" of early 2000's forums, and even 90s Usenet, seems appealing (although tinted by rose-colored nostalgic glasses).
Re: USENET rises again?
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry, but you make it sound like there are many. That allow posting, and free, I think I only know one. It's been a while since I looked. I could have sworn there were at least a handful, but either A. I might be mis-remembering or B. the landscape might have changed since I checked last. That said, there seem to be quite few who offer cheap if not actually free access. And by "cheap" I mean, on the order of $10.00…
I don't think 10USD/month for access to a forum is anywhere near cheap or even reasonable, no matter how big it is. I can't imagine anyone paying that for non-warez Usenet access.
If you do not care about binary files then use https://www.eternal-september.org, it's free.
Re: USENET rises again?
#145I never really understood how usenet works. There are usenet servers, and you post to usenet via these, right? Given there are O(100s) of servers (at least), I assume that the protocol between these servers is not full mesh, and there's some kind of small set of servers that participate in a mesh, and then followers that synchronize from them. How does this synchronization protocol work? How does one join the mesh? I…
A server might decide to exchange messages in groups A, B, C… with peers X, Y, Z. Choice of peers depends on their capacity, working hours, geographic location, network position, personal connections, access to dedicated lines… Choice of groups depends on popularity, space requirements, personal preferences, user requests… Some of them allow messages to spread step-by-step to all or almost all of the network, those are global groups. Some of them are only shared by a couple of servers or exist on a single server, those are local. Nothing prevents you from making a “boobble.shmoobble.goobble” group and stating that it's the central most important point of all Usenet. You only need to make all the rest believe it. Then there are additional complexities and tools to deal with batch transfers, figuring out which messages have not yet been seen by a peer since the previous interchange (you don't want X to send lots of updates to Z, then Y to take the same long time sending mostly the same updates to Z), choice of best next hop (routing, manual load balancing), and so on.
Of course, when synchronization is needed — say, for group moderator to be able to delete spam message from many servers holding that group instead of each admin doing that on each server independently, and to prevent reintroduction and further spread of the message, — it results in hairy ball of hacks on top of original architecture, and ad-hoc external trust channels, like with signatures. Understandably, Usenet appeared in a hierarchical and controlled professional environment (users were bound by formal and informal rules), then it was re-purposed for free for all operation.
Re: USENET rises again?
#146I was in an AI conference yesterday, and there was a bunch of discussion in the chat about Slack channels, Discord servers, etc. So I was literally just lamenting the state of shared discussion forums, and commented that we all need to go back to Usenet and drop all these lame "walled garden" proprietary forums. I'd like to tell people "install Thunderbird, sign up for a free Usenet provider, and join comp.ai, comp.m…
The spam is the biggest issue. We never solved it there, and it's only being controlled on usenet's imitators through tight control, which is not a feature of usenet. One setup I could see working is a pubkey setup where anyone who posts, always encrypts with their private key, and anyone you want to hear from, you add their public key to your list of keys you decrypt to read. Aggregators can occupy public keys as th…
Re: USENET rises again?
#147I was in an AI conference yesterday, and there was a bunch of discussion in the chat about Slack channels, Discord servers, etc. So I was literally just lamenting the state of shared discussion forums, and commented that we all need to go back to Usenet and drop all these lame "walled garden" proprietary forums. I'd like to tell people "install Thunderbird, sign up for a free Usenet provider, and join comp.ai, comp.m…
I have a few people in my killfile so that I don't see messages from them but don't get much spam in the comp.* groups that I read. The threading and only seeing new messages is a lot better in my Usenet client than any web forum that I use, including this one.
Indeed! This is the other less-spoken flaw of walled-garden communication apps. Since they are proprietary, you're stuck with the very limited functionality the company has decided to implement (and it's always very limited).
With open protocols such as SMTP and NNTP, there's no limit to how feature rich the clients (plural, since there can be many clients attuned to different tastes) can be. And you can always pipe things to a shell for an infinitely extensible set of capabilities.
I find all the proprietary communication apps so frustrating, knowing that my email and usenet clients even back in the 80s had tons of more functionality and flexibility.
Re: USENET rises again?
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
The spam is the biggest issue. We never solved it there, and it's only being controlled on usenet's imitators through tight control, which is not a feature of usenet. One setup I could see working is a pubkey setup where anyone who posts, always encrypts with their private key, and anyone you want to hear from, you add their public key to your list of keys you decrypt to read. Aggregators can occupy public keys as th…
> I believe the main reason usenet faded I believe it was due to AOL and CompuServe forums, which were most importantly, new, novel, friendly and easy. Technical people were "above" AOL and so those Usenet communities survived a few more years, but ultimately succumbed to web forums which were superior to Usenet in almost every way. Unfortunately, web forums were mostly hollowed out due to social media, and now that…
Re: USENET rises again?
#149I was in an AI conference yesterday, and there was a bunch of discussion in the chat about Slack channels, Discord servers, etc. So I was literally just lamenting the state of shared discussion forums, and commented that we all need to go back to Usenet and drop all these lame "walled garden" proprietary forums. I'd like to tell people "install Thunderbird, sign up for a free Usenet provider, and join comp.ai, comp.m…
The spam is the biggest issue. We never solved it there, and it's only being controlled on usenet's imitators through tight control, which is not a feature of usenet. One setup I could see working is a pubkey setup where anyone who posts, always encrypts with their private key, and anyone you want to hear from, you add their public key to your list of keys you decrypt to read. Aggregators can occupy public keys as th…
I think you mean that posters would sign with their private keys and you would have a list of public keys that you would verify the signature against.
That, incidentally, is also a valid approach to email spam...
Re: USENET rises again?
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I believe the main reason usenet faded I believe it was due to AOL and CompuServe forums, which were most importantly, new, novel, friendly and easy. Technical people were "above" AOL and so those Usenet communities survived a few more years, but ultimately succumbed to web forums which were superior to Usenet in almost every way. Unfortunately, web forums were mostly hollowed out due to social media, and now that…
Just my opinion but I can't think of a single way in which I found web forums of the early 2000s to be superior to usenet.