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The end of cool small cars

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Re: The end of cool small cars

#141

Post by stuaxo »

kolektiv wrote: post #29
FridayoLeary wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of punishing the middle class by slapping ulez on them, it would be far more effective and fair for the london mayor to offer free school buses like they do in some parts of America.

I'm not sure the middle classes are likely to be hit by ULEZ anyway - it hits vehicles older than a certain age, primarily - not many of those Chelsea Tractors are likely to fall foul of it. While I agree with ULEZ, I will admit it's quite regressive - the people with old/polluting vehicles are, in many cases, those least able to afford anything better and/or the charge. Public transport should be much better, but th…

We need the need to follow Paris's lead and tax by weight - damage to roads follows a 4th power law, so very from a dumb immediate economic POV this makes sense.

Re: The end of cool small cars

#142

Post by blibble »

stuaxo wrote: post #140

This is true. I'm in the UK and cars are getting bigger and uglier for no reason, just like taller versions of existing cars. People don't realise that big cars look stupid.

they're less stable, less safe, perform worse, have less space for storage, have worse fuel economy, worse visibility, more difficult to maneuver/fit into parking and cost more

and yet they seem to be completely taking over

in the UK we don't even have the "light truck" excuse

Re: The end of cool small cars

#143

Post by nateoearth »

ianburrell wrote: post #111
etempleton wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree with you, but small cars are a lot less safe on a highway with tractor trailers and big SUVs around.

Big SUVs and pickup trucks are less or equally safe to mid-size SUVs and cars. The pickup frame is durable but doesn't provide good occupant protection. Also, big vehicles are more likely to crash being less maneuverable. Plus, a good portion of crashes are single-car and doesn't matter how big truck is if crash into pillar.

This is sadly untrue; larger vehicles are safer, and the largest are the safest. Legislation is the only way I can see to stop the vehicle size/weight arms race.

https://www.iihs.org/api/datastoredocument/status-report/pdf...

Re: The end of cool small cars

#144

Post by nateoearth »

masa331 wrote: post #33
rocgf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're an idiot helping to accelerate the problem as this now becomes a weapons race on the road This is a very harsh take for something that is legal and widespread everywhere across the world (at least Western world). You have to try really hard to pretend you don't understand why this is happening. It's a race to the top of the safety spectrum, and for good reason. Traffic accidents are among the single biggest…

It's not a race to the top of the safety spectrum. That's just a disguise and also only for some people. It's a race to the top of the "social" and $ spectrum where you have to show how little you care about the others and the environment and also how much money you can dump on vanity and impractical things

I think it's actually both. Some people buy bigger cars for looks/status, and then others (esp. parents of small children) feel compelled to buy a larger, safer vehicle in response. In the case of minivans, they are choosing a less cool, but safer, vehicle than smaller alternatives.

Occupants of the largest vehicles on the road experience less than 1/10 of the fatalities than those in the smallest. We desperately need new regulations/legislation to address the vehicle size arms race.

https://www.iihs.org/api/datastoredocument/status-report/pdf...

Re: The end of cool small cars

#145

Post by redeeman »

JambalayaJim wrote: post #122
redeeman wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many people do purely use these cars for no purpose besides them being a status symbol, or to be more secure on the road (which could be suggestive of a non-confident or bad driver). In the same way me configuring which interfaces to bind to also could be suggestive of a non confident or bad firewall configuration ability. And sure, most of the time the car gets used for other purposes, because people have to WORK…

I think you’re missing the point here. Operating a powerful computing device doesn’t negatively impact other people. On the other hand, SUV drivers directly make my life less safe every single day. This shouldn’t even be thought of primarily as a climate issue - pedestrian and cyclist fatalities are up simply because of the size of cars on the road today. It’s simply not worth it, and cities should tax SUV drivers ac…

your fancy electronics devices have polluted this earth during their manufacture, and most certainly will during their probable end of life in a landfill. Who gives you the right to say that this is okay but an SUV is not? what if I want to live a primitive life without electronics. Your electronics takes precious time away from my life. Your shoes deposit microplastics in the environment that is most probably harmful. The electricity you consume to read this comment spews pollution into the atmosphere. Even if you are "co2 neutral", you arent really. What about the infrastructure required to keep it running? cars for service personal driving down the highway putting rubber particles in the air, reducing some peoples life.

Re: The end of cool small cars

#146

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

Is there a street-legal modification we could make to small sedans that would massively increase the risk of death to an SUV/truck owner (and ideally only that) in the event of a collision? Until the lethal calculus is equalized, the arms race is going to continue. SUV drivers have to start dying.

I know it sounds extreme, but the fact that they don't die and that the other guy dies instead, is the entire reason they choose the SUV, even if they don't say it.

Until that changes, the best-response function is just going to keep returning "bigger SUV".

This is literally a matter of life and death, so fucking play to win. You need something like MAD, but specifically targeted at SUVs.

Re: The end of cool small cars

#147

Post by pandaman »

arethuza wrote: post #94
vikingerik wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are small 'subcompact' crossover SUVs that get the best of both of those worlds. I've owned a Nissan Kicks and Honda HR-V. Both are marketed as SUVs but really function as roomy hatchbacks (lightweight, tight handling, front-wheel drive), along with others in the category. Very practical compromise between cost/efficiency and size/utility. Generally the only thing that cars in this class don't do is tow.

So apart from being a bit higher up - what is the benefit of the SUV? Edit: It's a question I keep asking myself, my wife still has a SUV...

It's not a bit higher up, it's quite a lot and makes a lot of difference in adverse weather (like getting water in your engine or not getting water in there and driving safely through a flash flood, for example). Also the visibility is quite different, especially at night, due to low beams covering much less space in front of a low car [1][2]. The higher stance allows for large tires and smoother ride. Getting in and out of the car, especially with children in seats is much easier.

This is without getting into the actual instances of hatchbacks and SUVs on the market. There is more choice and variety in SUVs.

1. https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/toyota/prius-4-door-hat...

2. https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/toyota/rav4-4-door-suv/...

Re: The end of cool small cars

#148

Post by faeriechangling »

leokennis wrote: post #121
eindiran wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that the compensating / micropenis jokes have been beating a dead horse for at least 10 years at this point. It's boring, it's embarrassing and it takes away from your message when you pepper them into your speech.

I disagree. At least in The Netherlands, these vehicles are a classic “mid life crisis mobile”. People compensating for something by buying an outrageous vehicle. So the “compensating joke” I’m making is in my opinion at least 50% truth.

It’s just wrong. If I think of men likely to have a micropenis it’s going to correlate strongly with genetic or developmental issues. Not the things exactly with track with being able to afford or make great use of some imposing pickup truck.

I know a family where every man is built like a brick shithouse and ain’t compensating for shit and every man has owned at least one truck. Big vehicles fit big people and carry big things that big people lift into them.

The difference is that such men are just entitled to use such things without being mocked. Whereas a man with a small dick using such things, or a man with any sort of socially contemptible trait using such things, is mockable. Don’t they know their place?

Re: The end of cool small cars

#149

Post by Vecr »

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #146

Is there a street-legal modification we could make to small sedans that would massively increase the risk of death to an SUV/truck owner (and ideally only that) in the event of a collision? Until the lethal calculus is equalized, the arms race is going to continue. SUV drivers have to start dying. I know it sounds extreme, but the fact that they don't die and that the other guy dies instead, is the entire reason they…

In theory that would be protected by the second amendment but I'm not sure how it would go over in practice. I can't actually think of anything though, contractors in the middle east took out the fuel pump kill switch, removed the airbags, and sometimes did something to reinforce the frame rails, but that's pretty much it. A roll cage could work, but then you need a full face helmet and a HANS device. Sticking anything to the front of the car would probably just kill pedestrians.

Re: The end of cool small cars

#150

Post by jet_32951 »

It's hard to know what to mourn more here: the subsumption of NSU into Volkswagenwerke AG, or the demise of Citroën in the USA. Both manufacturers had genuinely fresh ideas; both provided truly mold-breaking machinery.
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