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Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

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Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#141

Post by marshray »

nirvdrum wrote: post #123
natrius wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an inclusive way to advertise an event. Making a minority in a community feel like an event isn't really intended for them is bad.

Honestly, when these sorts of things happen, I'd love for every man in the world to just shut up for a minute. I have a hard time stomaching this whacked out form chivalry where men somehow have to fight on behalf of women because they're unable to defend themselves. I understand it's of far purer intent, but it seems just as sexist to me. Actually, it seems worse because it has a tinge of hypocrisy to it. I'd much r…

I've been to a tech conference that started with a few women in attendance and they'd basically all walked out by mid-afternoon. It was a tech conference with alcohol like this one. As the day went on, the men were getting drunker and drunker. Some women left out of concern for their personal safety.

How's that for a woman's reaction?

Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#142

Post by nirvdrum »

marshray wrote: post #141
nirvdrum wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, when these sorts of things happen, I'd love for every man in the world to just shut up for a minute. I have a hard time stomaching this whacked out form chivalry where men somehow have to fight on behalf of women because they're unable to defend themselves. I understand it's of far purer intent, but it seems just as sexist to me. Actually, it seems worse because it has a tinge of hypocrisy to it. I'd much r…

I've been to a tech conference that started with a few women in attendance and they'd basically all walked out by mid-afternoon. It was a tech conference with alcohol like this one. As the day went on, the men were getting drunker and drunker. Some women left out of concern for their personal safety. How's that for a woman's reaction?

Honest and helpful. Thanks.

Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#143

Post by natrius »

nirvdrum wrote: post #123
natrius wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an inclusive way to advertise an event. Making a minority in a community feel like an event isn't really intended for them is bad.

Honestly, when these sorts of things happen, I'd love for every man in the world to just shut up for a minute. I have a hard time stomaching this whacked out form chivalry where men somehow have to fight on behalf of women because they're unable to defend themselves. I understand it's of far purer intent, but it seems just as sexist to me. Actually, it seems worse because it has a tinge of hypocrisy to it. I'd much r…

My position is mostly selfish. I care about myself and I care about my future children. For myself, I'd like more women to show up to tech events because I generally enjoy mixed company. For my future children, I'd like them to feel comfortable in any industry they find interesting. (I also have that desire for most people in general, but it's particularly poignant when I think about potential children.)

There's little chivalry involved here. The advertisement for this event makes the tech industry worse for me.

As a side note, only considering the input of women on this issue is problematic when so few are involved in the first place.

Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#144

Post by marcusf »

dudeguy999 wrote: post #133
marcusf wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, there's so much viscerally wrong in this comment I'm just flabbergasted. I wrote a long reply and erased it. I think I'd rather just leave you with a cultural observation. Americans tend to mired in sexism to a much greater extent than for example Sweden, where I'm at. The above comment would simply not be made by a professional in Sweden. I guess we don't equate sexism and fun to the same extent some america…

Bizarrely, many Americans cling to the quaint notion that murder is wrong. We have a long way to go to catch up to progressive Europe!

It's always befuddled me that when it's a woman making a conscious choice about her body or when two men wants to marry the small government party see no issue with injecting themselves into peoples lives.

Also, it's slightly ironic to compare the american view on murder with a european view when you're the ones executing people.

Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#145

Post by nirvdrum »

natrius wrote: post #143
nirvdrum wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, when these sorts of things happen, I'd love for every man in the world to just shut up for a minute. I have a hard time stomaching this whacked out form chivalry where men somehow have to fight on behalf of women because they're unable to defend themselves. I understand it's of far purer intent, but it seems just as sexist to me. Actually, it seems worse because it has a tinge of hypocrisy to it. I'd much r…

My position is mostly selfish. I care about myself and I care about my future children. For myself, I'd like more women to show up to tech events because I generally enjoy mixed company. For my future children, I'd like them to feel comfortable in any industry they find interesting. (I also have that desire for most people in general, but it's particularly poignant when I think about potential children.) There's litt…

That's fair. Although we really needn't limit ourselves to only women currently in tech. It's just hard to get a woman's perspective on the matter, which I think would be highly elucidating, when there's so many vocal guys offended on their behalf.

Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#146

Post by marshray »

natrius wrote: post #143
nirvdrum wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, when these sorts of things happen, I'd love for every man in the world to just shut up for a minute. I have a hard time stomaching this whacked out form chivalry where men somehow have to fight on behalf of women because they're unable to defend themselves. I understand it's of far purer intent, but it seems just as sexist to me. Actually, it seems worse because it has a tinge of hypocrisy to it. I'd much r…

My position is mostly selfish. I care about myself and I care about my future children. For myself, I'd like more women to show up to tech events because I generally enjoy mixed company. For my future children, I'd like them to feel comfortable in any industry they find interesting. (I also have that desire for most people in general, but it's particularly poignant when I think about potential children.) There's litt…

I think it's important to want to support women in tech for non-selfish reasons too. The idea that half the people in the world don't feel like they can pursue hacking because of unrelated issues is not acceptable.

Still, I agree with your self-interest arguments and would even add another:

I am tired of only ever working around guys all day. It has been long time since I worked with any non-guy low-level coders. Heck, bring in some transsexuals, either direction, I don't care. Just mix it up a bit. An all-male work environment becomes tedious after a while.

Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#147

Post by temphn »

gyardley wrote: post #130
temphn wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mr. Byrnes, it is a little more complicated than that. Many of the people angry about this incident will, in another context, back up someone like Richard Dawkins when he offends. Dawkins happens to be one of my favorite authors, but he is quite provocative. And Heroku advertises the Dawkins Foundation as a success story: http://success.heroku.com/dawkins-foundation The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Scien…

Not at all. When deciding whether you think someone should apologize or not for an action, the issue is not whether the party they offended can force an apology, it's whether you believe that person's action was wrong. Many of the people angry about this incident believe that sexism is wrong, but advocating atheism in Dawkins' manner is not wrong. Therefore they believe the sexist should apologize, and Dawkins should…

  Many of the people angry about this incident believe that 
  sexism is wrong, but advocating atheism in Dawkins' manner 
  is not wrong.
Right. However, the group of people who are against sexism are objectively much more culturally and economically powerful than the group of people who are against Dawkins. Heroku doesn't fear any lost business from supporting Dawkins, but it dropped Sqoot like a hot potato.

You could quantify this by comparing a Facebook-based StatusRank for the anti-Sqoots vs. the anti-Dawkins. The former group will have much higher socioeconomic status than the latter. Harvard graduates are much more likely to believe "sexism not ok, Dawkins ok" and high school dropouts are much more likely to believe the reverse.

That is, sexism is "not ok" and Dawkins is "ok" in this thread because these are the beliefs shared by the most powerful people in society. This has little to do with right and wrong and much to do with socioeconomic status.

Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#148

Post by dudeguy999 »

marcusf wrote: post #144
dudeguy999 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bizarrely, many Americans cling to the quaint notion that murder is wrong. We have a long way to go to catch up to progressive Europe!

It's always befuddled me that when it's a woman making a conscious choice about her body or when two men wants to marry the small government party see no issue with injecting themselves into peoples lives. Also, it's slightly ironic to compare the american view on murder with a european view when you're the ones executing people.

On the issue of abortion, you can't see the other side at all? At the least, you're preventing a human life from happening. That doesn't give you cause for thought and reflection? Call it what you want, but if your mother had an abortion you would be dead.

The opposition believes that nobody has a right to make the conscious choice to kill another human being. That sounds like a reasonable place to start.

I'm consistently dismayed by the amount of intellectual and moral atrophy displayed in discussions of politics.

Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#149

Post by dmg8 »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #62
rauljara wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The marketing material assumed that the people reading it would be heterosexual men, and gave no consideration to the idea that a woman might actually want to attend an event. Finding women attractive is not a sin. Assuming the whole world should revolve around what you find attractive without giving any consideration to the other half of the world's population is sexist. Not "I hate women" sexist. Just "women don't…

In addition, the marketing material assumed that the people reading it would be drinkers, and gave no consideration to the idea that a non-drinker might actually want to attend. In addition to sexism, the marketers seem to believe that "teetotalers don't really qualify as people in the same way drinkers do, and no I've never really thought very hard about it". (They also seem to feel the same way about people who don…

Expressing outrage at "sexists in tech" is an important signaling ritual on Hacker News, as evidenced by the 50 million other threads interchangeable with this one.

Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#150

Post by lvalue »

temphn wrote: post #147
gyardley wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. When deciding whether you think someone should apologize or not for an action, the issue is not whether the party they offended can force an apology, it's whether you believe that person's action was wrong. Many of the people angry about this incident believe that sexism is wrong, but advocating atheism in Dawkins' manner is not wrong. Therefore they believe the sexist should apologize, and Dawkins should…

Many of the people angry about this incident believe that sexism is wrong, but advocating atheism in Dawkins' manner is not wrong. Right. However, the group of people who are against sexism are objectively much more culturally and economically powerful than the group of people who are against Dawkins. Heroku doesn't fear any lost business from supporting Dawkins, but it dropped Sqoot like a hot potato. You could quan…

Correlation is not causation.
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