[dupe]
Discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37142065
Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
141–150 of 175 posts
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
We absolutely do not have bike lanes all over the US, most cities are barely getting started adding them
I didn't say we had reached a saturation point, I'm merely pointing out that we've mustered up the investment to build them.
I'm not trying to argue, it's just that the claim "bike lanes all over the US" is not remotely true no matter how you slice it
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
I fail to see how more public transit would solve the drunk-guy-pissing-in-the-corner issue.
If public transit is normalized (used by the majority of people, particularly those with money and some political power), those people will demand enforcement of "don't piss in the corner" laws. The problem today is mass transit (outside NYC and a few other places) is largely used by working class with neither the means, power, or time to push for change.
It's not bad reasoning, though I just want to point out that NYC has tons of public transit, used by both working class and non-working-class people, and those problems persist.
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#144This is good, this is how the AI learns and gets better. Just like a learner driver who stalls the engine, forgets to put on a turn signal and can't keep up with traffic. We've all got to learn sometime.
> We've all got to learn sometime. The lesson should be that San Francisco isn't the right place to run a highly disruptive experiment. Do these experiments where the potential for disruption is a lot lower, like a smaller city with less congestion.
How many learner drivers do you think hit the streets of San Francisco every week?
Should they be banished too?
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#145The scary part of this is it went through construction cones and flaggers with stop signs to end up in the concrete. Basically, this thing went right through a construction zone without stopping. Granted, people are this dumb every single day. But who is liable for the fines here?
I hope fines will eventually get adjusted upward if they’re given to a company. A $10,000 fine would convince almost anyone never to plow through a construction zone, but the same fine for a company would only get them to set a quarterly target for incident count.
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even if the cones weren't perfect, a flagger should be sufficient for traffic control. It's same as if there was a police officer directing traffic in an intersection. Both are explicit overrides to posted signs. Same with emergency vehicles, which self-driving cars have already been shown to ignore.
Sure, but we don't know if there was a flagger either. Only a single construction worker standing to the side. I'm not debating whether an AI car should "see" possible construction, even when not marked appropriately (most humans can too). Only pointing out we don't know if this zone was marked/flagged - and if it wasn't, there's a higher likelihood of human driver error as well.
> Rachel Gordon, a spokeswoman for the San Francisco Department of Public Works, said that the paving project on Golden Gate Avenue had been marked off with construction cones and that there were workers with flags at each end of the block.
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#147This must've been proposed, but why don't we ticket Cruise as a single "driver"? The number of infractions they've had would certainly get their license suspended.
It depends on your goal. Does aggressively ticketing new teenage drivers lead to better driving?
There is a huge potential benefit. If the cars are going to improve they need to be tested in the real world. So maybe some forbearance is justified?
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do we know that the paving zone was properly signed/controlled? The single photo in the article has a cone on the outside of the zone, but we don't see the beginning of the zone.
Even if the cones weren't perfect, a flagger should be sufficient for traffic control. It's same as if there was a police officer directing traffic in an intersection. Both are explicit overrides to posted signs. Same with emergency vehicles, which self-driving cars have already been shown to ignore.
Yes, this is an issue self-driving cars. Roads and signage are not unchanging and always set up proper or the same way every time, everywhere, nor do they need to be.
Light control at an intersection out? They'll just blink red, indicating a stop sign. Maybe they're off, and they put up temporary stop signs on the corners, or as you mentioned, a police officer redirects traffic. And then a fire engine will run through it, as they need to.
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
If public transit is normalized (used by the majority of people, particularly those with money and some political power), those people will demand enforcement of "don't piss in the corner" laws. The problem today is mass transit (outside NYC and a few other places) is largely used by working class with neither the means, power, or time to push for change.
It's not bad reasoning, though I just want to point out that NYC has tons of public transit, used by both working class and non-working-class people, and those problems persist.
Well, that stinks. I haven't been to NYC since I was a kid.
How do other countries solve this? Is it just an off-hours thing, or a problem mid-day?
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's corralling in the possible range of the vehicles - anywhere without the enhanced signage will have to be no man's land. If an autonomous car drives to a small town that doesn't have the enhanced cones and gets into an accident at a construction zone whose fault is it? I'm not sure what "This sort of thing can also benefit regular vehicles." means in this instance. If the cone is machine readable how does that he…
Enhanced signage doesn't mean that the cars shouldn't be able to read regular signage, it just means that future usages of signage will make the task easier and lower risk. As such, locations without the signage aren't "no man's land". Would be similar to how many places aren't outright banning ICE cars, just banning the sale of new ones at some point in the future. Allowing for a comparatively smooth transition. The…
> Would be similar to how many places aren't outright banning ICE cars, just banning the sale of new ones at some point in the future. Allowing for a comparatively smooth transition.
This comparison doesn't make much sense. We're highlighting a dangerous failure in capability here, not a desire to change out the engine. Either engine works perfectly fine, it's secondary properties that we care about with transition. It's a primary responsibility of an autonomous vehicle to be able to identify and react to obstacles.
We either need the enhanced cones or we don't, but only a fraction of cones being enhanced means they aren't actually that useful or that the situations without them are inherently more dangerous. Are we OK with a situation where autonomous vehicles identify the enhanced cones 90% of the time but the non-enhanced 50%? No, we want both to be very high.