Do y'all really use ChatGPT for coding questions? Every time I have tried, the answer I get is entirely wrong, and I end up going back to either first party documentation, or Stack Exchange.
Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange
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Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange
#142I have never understood why people have so much contempt for SO/SE network of websites. To me this network is on par with Wikipedia in terms of contribution to mankind. This is the internet itself. Granted I have only ever asked a handful of questions there, so all I have is anecdotes to share, but the community was very welcoming, and straight to the point. Maybe it has changed now? I haven't asked any questions sin…
That being said, I realize you do have to be careful about subtle bugs.
My canonical example is “write a Python script that returns all of the AWS IAM roles that contain a given list of policies”.
The code it usually generates works correctly as long as you don’t have more than 50 roles in your account. It won’t add pagination support unless you spot the bug and tell it.
The second question I have is what type of questions do you find are better suited for Stack Overflow than ChatGPT? Are they questions based on post 2021 knowledge?
Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange
#143Not mentioned in the article is the negativity found with asking questions on Stack Overflow, where your question is marked as duplicate if it's vaguely like something else, if it's not worded exactly correctly, etc. A remarkable thing about asking ChatGPT questions is that you don't have to be defensive, you can just ask your question no matter how basic, dumb, or simple it is without justification. Seems a bad stat…
If you were to look at hundreds upon hundreds of easily-researchable questions titled "plz halp i am n00b" asked by people who didn't bother to apply a slightest amout of elementary analytic skill, you would be just as negative.
> hundreds upon hundreds of easily-researchable questions titled "plz halp i am n00b" asked by people who didn't bother to apply a slightest amout of elementary analytic skill
I'm sure ChatGPT gets not just "hundreds upon hundreds" of these each day, but thousands upon thousands of them each hour. And it remains cheery about it. Which is a much better experience for its users. It just turns out to be a better tool for this job than relying on the good will of human volunteers.
Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange
#144ML works well, when it is only trained on correct data. ML trained on all the things ever written about programming is going to get things wrong quite a lot of the time, and you'll only have the context of its reply to you, for you to figure out whether the ML answer is correct. And of course, ML always wants to please you with an answer. SO, on the other hand has accepted answers, and upvoted answers that are easier…
Is that correct? I would think that its ‘interpolation’ and ‘extrapolation’ capabilities can easily make it produce incorrect statements.
As a simple example, train it on “π is a number”, “1 is a number”, “3/7 is a number”, “1.3457 is a number”, etc.
and
“1 is a rational number”, “3/7 is a rational number”, “1.3457 is a rational number”, etc.
and I give you a good chance that it will ‘think’ “π is a rational number”.
Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange
#145I have never understood why people have so much contempt for SO/SE network of websites. To me this network is on par with Wikipedia in terms of contribution to mankind. This is the internet itself. Granted I have only ever asked a handful of questions there, so all I have is anecdotes to share, but the community was very welcoming, and straight to the point. Maybe it has changed now? I haven't asked any questions sin…
Everybody is trying to do their best but the new askers don't have the experience to not ask their question and the experienced SO users have seen that question asked a dozen times already.
Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange
#146I have never understood why people have so much contempt for SO/SE network of websites. To me this network is on par with Wikipedia in terms of contribution to mankind. This is the internet itself. Granted I have only ever asked a handful of questions there, so all I have is anecdotes to share, but the community was very welcoming, and straight to the point. Maybe it has changed now? I haven't asked any questions sin…
Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange
#147I have never understood why people have so much contempt for SO/SE network of websites. To me this network is on par with Wikipedia in terms of contribution to mankind. This is the internet itself. Granted I have only ever asked a handful of questions there, so all I have is anecdotes to share, but the community was very welcoming, and straight to the point. Maybe it has changed now? I haven't asked any questions sin…
I have had questions closed as duplicate, where the "original" asked something else. Questions about choice of framework apparently are off topic on SE stack exchange -> closed. Weirdo moderators / keen users butting in on active, sane questions with "I'm voting to close because [random nonsensical rule]".
I feel bad writing it as I suspect most moderators on SO are great, but this is nonetheless my overwhelming experience of past 12 months.
EDIT I forget about the patronizing users who didn't read the question, but don't let that stop them from lecturing you. On SO rules, life mistakes...
Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange
#148Do y'all really use ChatGPT for coding questions? Every time I have tried, the answer I get is entirely wrong, and I end up going back to either first party documentation, or Stack Exchange.
I'm a 56 year-old product marketer who used ChatGPT (plus Midjourney) to build an entire SaaS application and landing page: creatormail.io I've had some seasoned developers review my (ChatGPT's) Python and got positive feedback with some constructive suggestions.
Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange
#149I would really like to see what Joel Spolsky and Jeff Atwood, the original creators of Stack Overflow, have to say about the current state of affairs. Their business model was recruiting by identifying people with specific skills, and it was effective. I hired and was hired that way. (They sold it years ago to a South African private equity venture and made the pile of money they deserved.)
Someone should feed an LLM all the Joel on Software articles and ask it to comment on Stack Overflow. But a serious question: is Joel still in charge of SO? Has he retired?
Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange
#150I should've been a great fit for stack exchange. I love technical communities and have been writing code for several decades. But they did not have a particularly welcoming experience for new contributors (perhaps by design?) so I wasn't ever really able to get the flywheel started and never ended up contributing much. I wonder if there's a systems lesson to be learned here around communities that do a good job welco…
Here's how I've seen it played out before:
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johnnydoe2002 posts a question titled "How do I get my code to work?" with two sentences explaining their problem and an attached screenshot of their code. Within two minutes it gets downvoted thrice, flagged seven times as vague, and modman♦ closes the question, but not before posting the comment reply "Welcome to SO! Thank you for your interest, blah blah, your question has been closed because it needs clarification, blah blah, [link to new user portal]"
OK maybe that was a bit hyperbolic and most new users aren't that bad, so let's say johnnydoe2002 is undeterred by this and actually formats and titles their question in a reasonable way. Within four minutes it has one short answer from repseeker and a long-form answer that is more of a code review from overeagerverbosity. The question gets no upvotes despite having two answers. Within seven minutes poweruser98 closes the question as duplicate because it received enough flags.
If I were johnnydoe2002, I would have a mix of feelings. On the one hand, someone (two people, in fact!) answered my question; on the other hand, it was summarily closed and nobody found it interesting. I can clearly tell that I am not a part of the "in-group."
But I can also commiserate with modman♦ and poweruser98. johnny's question only adds noise and they clearly didn't read the contribution guidelines. The mods and power users are willing to be nice, but they don't have the time to hold anyone's hand: in the past ten minutes they've had to deal with all sorts of questions from larryloe2001, minnymoe2003, and randyroe2000. I wouldn't be surprised if for every useful question on SO there are two that have to be closed.
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I honestly think that changes in phrasing and formatting could help the new user experience a lot.
Like if instead of closing questions as duplicates, the mod/user in question would post an answer that says "I think this other thread answers your question" and the page is invisibly redirected everywhere else to the other thread. Essentially "shadow closing" so that it appears to the new user as if they just received immediate feedback in the form of a (helpful) answer, while not being told that they are bad because they dared post a duplicate.
Or instead of closing a question as "needs clarification," sending it back to the edit modal with some adjoining commentary or links that explains the clarification it needs.
I think that for a community with standards these exacting, most users will not be able to just pop in - which is difficult because we usually refer to SO in passing. But I also think that those exacting standards can be upheld without stomping over new users with downvotes and close votes.