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80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

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Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#141

Post by deaddodo »

lamontcg wrote: post #94
troupe wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. My guess is that most employers really have no way to measure if an employee is being productive or not so managers are just reporting what makes them look good...and now we are ba…

> I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. The decades of evidence that open office plans are utter shit for productivity already proved that the emperor wears no clothes and they have no idea what makes for better produc…

Open offices are the literal reason (after commuting/traffic) that I no longer want to go into the office. My work doesn't require a ton of person:person engagement and it's much easier for me to just zone out in my own headspace to do it.

When I was required in the office, I would just wear headphones to avoid distractions, but I would have to deal with 2-3hrs of driving/day on top of it. This meant that my employer generally only got those 8hrs out of me, period; because I had none of my personal time to spare. Working from home, on the other hand, gives me more flexibility for meetings, to work at different hours, to be on later in the evening, to put in more time (when needed), etc; and I'm happier.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#142

Post by cyberlurker »

seneca wrote: post #135
rabuse wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the people who have children at home, and the massive savings of not having to pay for daycare. That's major.

How is working from home able to replace daycare? That's a new one to me.

Yea that makes no sense. Maybe during the pandemic it made sense when daycares were closed down and people were worried about the health risks. But now, there is no way you can tend to a kid and be a productive remote employee at the same time.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#143

Post by jayd16 »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #80
water9 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Acting like all humans will work equally as hard when they are supervised vs unsupervised is completely naïve

It's also naïve to assume that the work people do when supervised is always valuable and not optimizing for the appearance of work, rather than work itself.

Would those people be working significantly more without supervision? I find it hard to believe.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#144

Post by xracy »

I can't figure this out, but there seems to be some monied interests in people returning to work because of corporate real estate...

That part makes sense to me, the part I don't understand is why every other corporation seems to want to continue buying into that when they could, for example, stop and save money on their current corporate real estate...

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#145

Post by dylan604 »

justrealist wrote: post #45
dylan604 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And order food! Have some cookies, croissants, pizza delivered right as the meeting starts. as if the snacks one has in their own home are so undesirable that this is the compelling factor. such a good post left on such a weak point.

The indignity of getting excluded from free cake is not an economic calculus. Lots of people could go to the grocery store and buy themselves a sheet cake. They don't.

But you're assuming that one likes cake/pizza/whatever cheap mediocre food product that's been mentioned. If I was that manager, I'd raise your cake/pizza/whatever with a freshly grilled filet and baked potato with a nice glass of wine. Remind them just what possibilities they are missing for being in the office like peasants! After all, isn't that the point of having direct reports being in the office while you're at home?

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#146

Post by Alupis »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #15

I understand the merits of WFH and in-person work. One thing that is however funny is the guilt tripping used by employers who have this straw-man version of a lazy WFH employee, and more so, employers who have a delusion that their workplace is important enough that people need to sacrifice a large portion of their lives just for the opportunity to be there in person. 90% of jobs aren't people's "passions" and have…

There's a lot of nuance that isn't discussed in the WFH circles. I don't believe the cynical claims some offer of VC's losing out on real estate deals, or mid-level managers needing to boost their butts-in-seats numbers or whatever. For some, perhaps, but on average?

What percentage of long-distance relationships work out long-term? Do you become more or less close with friends after they move out of town? Do you still "know" them the same as you did when you regularly met in person for lunch or drinks? Is it awkward when you do see each other in person that one visit a year?

Human beings are social creatures - yes, even we introverts need interaction. A pure voice-only relationship can feel close, but it's not the same thing. Current technology like Zoom and similar is just not a good replacement for in-person interactions.

How many times have you spoken right over someone on a Zoom call or Discord server? The social queues are erased, and things become awkward and less productive. Creativity (which applies even in engineering) is diminished when you have to use online whiteboards and planning tools vs. a real physical whiteboard with everyone holding their own pen and bouncing ideas around in real-time. To use Zoom et al effectively, the pace of thought and contribution are greatly diminished into a sort of per-turn dance.

WFH is fantastic when you have a head-down, concentration-demanding task that is very clearly defined. For most other things, it's actually harder to get work done.

WFH is simply not a replacement for team cohesivity. There is a great deal lost when you do not meet in person with the people you work with on a regular basis - we can't just sweep that under the rug because we'd prefer to sit in our home office. We have to acknowledge the real tradeoffs - the loss of the "team".

That's not the say WFH doesn't work. Some people make an entire career working from home after all. It is simply an acknowledgement that WFH isn't as beneficial in all situations as you might believe.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#147

Post by lifeisstillgood »

Most (tech) jobs involve huge amounts of co-ordination and creativity. This is waaaay easier in person, so having all the people needed in the same location makes a huge difference.

But the "same location" is almost an inverse square law. Same room - great. Really strong. Same floor. pretty good. Same building. Well that's starting to hurt. Different building, different town, different time zone. At the different time zone level the "gravitational interaction level" is something you need LIGO to pick up.

If you have a "team" of people answering first line support calls, spread them across the globe and get them to read off the same wiki.

If you just launched a 10M dollar project to fix "something vaguely defined that the board know is important but cannot agree on", welcome to hell. It's possible if you lock the best tech and rising business stars in the same room. Good luck otherwise.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#148

Post by flangola7 »

mkl95 wrote: post #52
atleastoptimal wrote: post #15

I understand the merits of WFH and in-person work. One thing that is however funny is the guilt tripping used by employers who have this straw-man version of a lazy WFH employee, and more so, employers who have a delusion that their workplace is important enough that people need to sacrifice a large portion of their lives just for the opportunity to be there in person. 90% of jobs aren't people's "passions" and have…

> Lots of employers like to delude themselves that their company is some big important, cutting-edge enterprise that's making a real impact in the world. Pretty much. The only time I've considered going back to in-person work since the pandemic was for a FAANG. If you think your employees want to go back to the office, you are either a big tech company or you are deluded

Realistically most FAANG employees are not doing anything that will be written down in history either. For example, whichever division at Microsoft is responsible for Teams.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#149

Post by dec0dedab0de »

seneca wrote: post #135
rabuse wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the people who have children at home, and the massive savings of not having to pay for daycare. That's major.

How is working from home able to replace daycare? That's a new one to me.

When the Children are basically old enough to be alone, but not old enough to be alone all day. Like 9-13

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#150

Post by ilc »

marcosdumay wrote: post #124
judge2020 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most employers instituting hybrid or RTO will have a way to apply for an exception, which is just a filter to keep high value employees (by approving their fully remote requests) while cutting employees without needing to write severance checks - a "soft layoff" if you will.

You are assuming the employees will just accept their exceptional situation instead of using it to gain some time and jumping ship. You are also assuming the managers know beforehand who are high-value employees. I doubt either of those are true.

You are assuming managers want to keep high performing employees.
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