E-scooter startup Spin apparently uses RasPi 4s inside their scooters • Hacker News Board

Re: E-scooter startup Spin apparently uses RasPi 4s inside their scooters

#141

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Mon, Aug 07, 2023, 9:49 PM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #95

superdisk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem: We need to outsource the software to India. Solution: Put a way overpowered computer in the product so they can program it. Ridiculous problem with a ridiculous solution. Are they allergic to any level of correctness? Sometimes I'm ashamed to be in this industry.

I've struggled with this question myself so I'll just put it out: what makes using something that's more powerful than you need - and less expensive - wrong or shameful? The only product that matters to a customer is one that exists, and if this approach saves you money, lets you prove product market fit, or allows the product to keep existing longer - isn't that more important than the fact the Pi has more parts tha…

The phrase that I've cautioned other engineers with over the years is "you don't get extra points for making it harder."

You really don't. And in most cases, making it harder means that you're probably making it buggier.

Re: E-scooter startup Spin apparently uses RasPi 4s inside their scooters

#142

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Mon, Aug 07, 2023, 9:53 PM UTC

xeckr wrote: post #126

notatoad wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

developing for esp32 is way more difficult than developing for raspi. raspi lets you basically treat it like a normal computer, you can use standard python and sqlite and install whatever nonsense you want from pip and basically assume it will run whatever your laptop can. it means you can hire kids straight out of school, or outsource to india, and whoever you get can work on it without really any concern - it'll ru…

I understand your point—the barrier to entry for development is somewhat higher for the ESP32 than for the Raspberry Pi. Then again, I wouldn't say that it is way more difficult, and I would wager that most of those who have the skills to build the brain of an electric scooter with a Pi 4 could learn how to port their application over to the ESP32 platform within at most a week. Even if you went with a more pessimist…

Right, but depending on your industry, you may not be able to make up the development speed advantage of the RPi at any cost.

Re: E-scooter startup Spin apparently uses RasPi 4s inside their scooters

#143

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Mon, Aug 07, 2023, 10:09 PM UTC

skelpmargyar wrote: post #101

xyzelement wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit of a first hand experience - my father in law runs a small manufacturing firm in the US. In the past few years they've designed a new hardware item with a Pi at the core. When the supply issues happened, they were concerned about not being able to manufacture the devices. That's a multi million dollar investment at stake not to mention the employees and customers that would be impacted. Luckily they figure out…

If they have a multi million dollar investment at stake and they're not able to pivot to any of the other many SBCs out there then they might just be incompetent. The Pi has nothing particularly special about other than it's well documented and cheap.

> it's well documented and cheap

And in one sentence you've nailed its value proposition perfectly. That's what is so special about it.

Re: E-scooter startup Spin apparently uses RasPi 4s inside their scooters

#144

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Mon, Aug 07, 2023, 10:14 PM UTC

Avamander wrote: post #115

robbywashere_ wrote: post #54

incoming flame war about how the raspi 4 was overpowered and they should have just used a button sized 8052, written the software in assembly and ran it all on CR3032 battery.

it's an absolutely valid point though

No, it's not. Engineers figure out what to use based on availability, target Bill of Materials cost, schedule and performance needed. If the Pi hits those perfectly, then you use the pi. If not, use something else.

In many cases, meeting a development schedule is far, far more important than cost or other constraints. I will happily throw a $25 ESP32 module at something that a $0.50 Atmel chip could handle, if I only need to build one unit. The $25 is a bargain compared to the amount of work I'd have to do to get the Atmel chip up and running.

Re: E-scooter startup Spin apparently uses RasPi 4s inside their scooters

#145

Post by simfree » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 7:02 AM UTC

monksy wrote: post #82

simfree wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eBikes certainly aren't classed as vehicles in the US, and no one cares when they are stolen. Given how little prosecution there is around bike theft, I doubt any police department or prosecutor is interested in spending the resources to prosecute the theft of an even cheaper mobility device.

They're classified as vehicles. Bikes themselves are also classified as vehicles and belong on the road

Depends on your locality, biking on sidewalks and trails is perfectly legal here: https://www.seattle.gov/transportation/projects-and-programs...