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Tesla committed fraud by “grossly” exaggerating EV range, class action says

arstechnica.com

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Re: Tesla committed fraud by “grossly” exaggerating EV range, class action says

#141

Post by vel0city »

lolsal wrote: post #139

I feel like I have a mild case of schadenfreude for all of these Tesla mental gymnastics. All of this is one of the reason I am absolutely not an early adopter of technology. I am looking forward to when EVs are equitable range, quick charging and ubiquitous fueling stations comparable to gas guzzlers. I never have to think about things like whether or not it is cold, I’m going up hills, or any of this other stuff. I…

> I just drive and when my tank gets low I pull into a gas station and fill up in a few minutes and move on with my day.

In my ICE, I have to think "dang, getting low on gas, I better leave a bit earlier to make sure I can get gas next time" and then take time out of my day every other week to get gas.

In my EV, I practically never stop at all because I leave the house every day with a full tank.

Re: Tesla committed fraud by “grossly” exaggerating EV range, class action says

#144

Post by lolsal »

vel0city wrote: post #141
lolsal wrote: post #139

I feel like I have a mild case of schadenfreude for all of these Tesla mental gymnastics. All of this is one of the reason I am absolutely not an early adopter of technology. I am looking forward to when EVs are equitable range, quick charging and ubiquitous fueling stations comparable to gas guzzlers. I never have to think about things like whether or not it is cold, I’m going up hills, or any of this other stuff. I…

> I just drive and when my tank gets low I pull into a gas station and fill up in a few minutes and move on with my day. In my ICE, I have to think "dang, getting low on gas, I better leave a bit earlier to make sure I can get gas next time" and then take time out of my day every other week to get gas. In my EV, I practically never stop at all because I leave the house every day with a full tank.

That’s awesome! I guess you live in a house? Or at least a place that you can park your car and charge every night? And drive 30-40 miles a day?

Lots of folks don’t have those privileges.

Re: Tesla committed fraud by “grossly” exaggerating EV range, class action says

#145

Post by erulabs »

I get about 230 miles of range in our model 3, my wife gets about 270. Head winds actually effect range far more than you’d expect, and the difference between 65 and 75 is dramatic. There is a reason Teslas have no door handles for aerodynamics, and it’s not because they secretly have shitty range.

It’s a bit of a stretch to say Tesla lied to customers here. I’d probably say Tesla didn’t carefully enough explain the laws of physics to uninformed customers is more accurate a statement.

Re: Tesla committed fraud by “grossly” exaggerating EV range, class action says

#146

Post by vel0city »

lolsal wrote: post #144
vel0city wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just drive and when my tank gets low I pull into a gas station and fill up in a few minutes and move on with my day. In my ICE, I have to think "dang, getting low on gas, I better leave a bit earlier to make sure I can get gas next time" and then take time out of my day every other week to get gas. In my EV, I practically never stop at all because I leave the house every day with a full tank.

That’s awesome! I guess you live in a house? Or at least a place that you can park your car and charge every night? And drive 30-40 miles a day? Lots of folks don’t have those privileges.

The majority of US households do. It's not like it's some massive outlier. Especially with people who commute to work by car instead of living in denser areas where car ownership rates are lower.

Lots of people always point to this idea that charging a car is a huge pain point compared to just pumping gas, but the majority of commuter cars would have the exact same experience as me.

For most commuters they spend more time pumping gas than they would waiting for their cars to charge, their travel costs fluctuate more, and they have to think more about buying gas than if they just had an EV for their commuter car.

Re: Tesla committed fraud by “grossly” exaggerating EV range, class action says

#147

Post by jcranmer »

MBCook wrote: post #126
gnicholas wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems OK at first glance, but if you're in a 65 then the trucks (in the right lane) will want to go 65+. Going 55 in the right lane means they all need to pass you, which causes a domino effect onto the other lanes of traffic. If you're on a 4-lane highway (2 in each direction), going 55 means that trucks that pass you will have to go in the fast lane. If there aren't a lot of trucks around, then going 55 in the righ…

And that’s 65. I’ve been in places where the speed limit is 70 but people usually go 75-80. That’s 20-25mph faster than you. At that point you’re practically impeding traffic, and having a big truck pass you is terrifying. Just because you can legally drive 55 or maybe even less doesn’t make it safe.

> Just because you can legally drive 55 or maybe even less doesn’t make it safe.

Generally, you actually can't legally drive that much slower than prevailing speed.

Re: Tesla committed fraud by “grossly” exaggerating EV range, class action says

#148

Post by lolsal »

vel0city wrote: post #146
lolsal wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s awesome! I guess you live in a house? Or at least a place that you can park your car and charge every night? And drive 30-40 miles a day? Lots of folks don’t have those privileges.

The majority of US households do. It's not like it's some massive outlier. Especially with people who commute to work by car instead of living in denser areas where car ownership rates are lower. Lots of people always point to this idea that charging a car is a huge pain point compared to just pumping gas, but the majority of commuter cars would have the exact same experience as me. For most commuters they spend more…

No point in discussing it really I guess. My anecdotal evidence says otherwise. I’m happy you have these conveniences though; I’m looking forward to when EVs catch up to the conveniences of ICE vehicles and infrastructure.

Re: Tesla committed fraud by “grossly” exaggerating EV range, class action says

#149

Post by machdiamonds »

It's very easy to see how favorably or unfavorably Tesla's claimed range compares to competitors based on independent tests of multiple EVs in the same conditions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LWL90paufE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynCaTDR4rDQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFB6hsYXDiA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvwOa7TCd1E

Spoiler alert: Tesla models fare about as well, if not better, than their EV cousins, hitting around 80% of the stated range in the wild.

Re: Tesla committed fraud by “grossly” exaggerating EV range, class action says

#150

Post by machdiamonds »

itsoktocry wrote: post #34

Lots of people here missing a part of the issue: Tesla receives carbon credits based on the range of the vehicle. If that range was exaggerated, they defrauded the government.

Lots of people are missing that Tesla doesn't do EPA tests, the EPA does.
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