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Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

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Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#141

Post by saiya-jin »

danudey wrote: post #86
nottorp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All they have to do is stop tracking us and only use login cookies if i log in. Simple enough. Any other cookies are not "table stakes".

Website analytics can be incredibly useful for designers and developers; giving those up would be a huge hit to a lot of companies, large and small, so it's understandable that they're not going to do so. Random example from more than a decade ago: I worked at an online retailer, and we did a nice redesign of our cart page. Looked great, much more readable, but we started losing sales. Did people hate the redesign? I…

Yeah, sorry but some small dev story won't bulge my opinion on this extremely lucrative 1984-esque business. I can come up with tons of similar battle stories for reason X or Y, they are nothing but tiny largely meaningless anecdotes. Also, you could have just spent a tiny bit more on UI testing and discover these rather obvious UI issues.

I'd expect a bit more from smart people who see very well into what kind of society we are going full speed, with no way out once in (if you don't consider going back to caves as a good option, I don't).

Its very fabric of whole society our kids will live in we are talking about here, nothing less. Is pretty clear what directions the biggest corporations are taking, hey are not even trying to hide what's in plain sight. If we common folks don't at least attempt to stop it or steer it in other direction I am worried nobody else ever will.

Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#142

Post by [deleted] »

nottorp wrote: post #56
whalesalad wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bad bandaid is still a bad thing, regardless of what it is covering up. Cookies are table stakes on the internet. This is the wrong solution to a completely different problem.

All they have to do is stop tracking us and only use login cookies if i log in. Simple enough. Any other cookies are not "table stakes".

[deleted]

Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#143

Post by sublinear »

pcan77 wrote: post #110
sublinear wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies know they don't need those pop-ups. They are putting them there to anger you and demand for things to go back. You're giving these companies much more credit than they deserve. They're just going through the motions in an attempt to avoid lawsuits, but clearly not even Google can get it right 100%. Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

incorrect; they are demanding that you download their app. "See! Our mobile experience isn't good, you need the app!!"

That's not even related to GDPR, and doesn't mean their webpage sucks. It means they want to push the app.

Marketing is a funnel. People who bother to download the app are heavier users of the site. Finding those users is the point.

Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#144

Post by [deleted] »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #109
Kovah wrote: post #21

Instead of hating the EU, how about directing your hate towards the bad players of the web? Cookie banners are not the fault of the EU, but the fault of companies disrespecting privacy rights and pushing data collection, ads and all possible shady growth hacking strategies towards the user. I am glad that a government body actually made this possible and made visible how horrible the internet is.

This gets repeated a lot. However, even one of the pages on the official site of the EU has a cookie banner: https://commission.europa.eu/index_en Is the EU itself acting maliciously in putting up that cookie banner?

[deleted]

Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#145

Post by ilyt »

danhau wrote: post #36
ktosobcy wrote: post #18

But you know that the problem are we operators - right? There could be browser configuration for the cookie consent popup (accept, essential, reject all) that websites could follow but now - they prefer to be obnoxious about it hoping that everyone will click "allow" pit of boredom (not to mention that at the beginning it was only visible option and reject was hidden, which was illegal)...

This. It boggles the mind that browser vendors (and standards committee) haven‘t come up with a preferences page for cookie consent. Expose that through JS and/or send it to the server via a HTTP header.

Nothing to boggle. Google is ad company. They will do everything in their power to not give users easy option to opt out of tracking.

Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#146

Post by mrweasel »

0xfedbee wrote: post #52
telmo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my personal experience, people who hate the GDPR are typically not EU citizens. I am an EU citizen and I strongly approve of GDPR. Is it perfect? No. Is it a step in the right direction? Yes.

Do you also approve of surveillance states that a lot of EU countries are? Do you approve of push to end encrypted messaging? Do you approve of impossibility of getting an anonymous SIM card?

And the EU is the only thing that consistently fights countries that try to spy on their citizens. I'm in Denmark and the government flat out refuse to stop tracking people via the cell phone network. The EU is pretty much the only organization that cares and tries to stop it (hard to actually stop it when the local government just ignores every ruling from the EU on the subject).

Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#147

Post by madeofpalk »

skydhash wrote: post #120
madeofpalk wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Analytics can be useful! They're not 'table stakes' though. The website will continue to work without them. If you want analytics, just get consent for be tracked.

Doesn't HTTP has an header [0] for this? The user can opt easily in and out. I've just read the specs and find that it's being deprecated. Why? It may not be granular, but I believe anyone opting out of telemetry also does not want marketing tracking. [0]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/DN...

It was dropped because it made users more susceptible to be tracked.

Requiring the opt-in to happen on the side creates an avenue to critique and dispute whether the website does the thing they say they do.

Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#148

Post by Given_47 »

skydhash wrote: post #120
madeofpalk wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Analytics can be useful! They're not 'table stakes' though. The website will continue to work without them. If you want analytics, just get consent for be tracked.

Doesn't HTTP has an header [0] for this? The user can opt easily in and out. I've just read the specs and find that it's being deprecated. Why? It may not be granular, but I believe anyone opting out of telemetry also does not want marketing tracking. [0]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/DN...

Yea websites straight up ignore it. Can’t currently find it but there was some wired/verge article detailing what they track of u and they actually mentioned as such too

Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#149

Post by legitster »

2016 was a weird time. When this legislation came down we literally had no idea what to do. We were a US company and didn't run any ads or broker data, so we thought at first that we were exempt.

After consulting with a legal team they made it clear this was not the case. And for the next 2 years there was a lot of pain.

We had too many cookies that were important to UX and analytics. If you don't understand why, imagine trying to run a store but not be allowed to look at your customers. We were fine not chasing them into the parking lot with a Polaroid camera, but GDPR didn't make a distinction really invasive tracking and "normal" un-creepy QOL cookies.

Before tools like OneTrust or Trustarc were available, it was also not even clear how you actually handle consent. TL:DR; you basically have to set a semi-anonymous cookie that tells you it's okay to load other cookies. But at the time it was not even clear if this was legal (since there are somewhat conflicting advice as to what could constitute PII in this situation).

To this day, we still deal with a lot of GDPR edge cases. Specifically what constitutes PII at a technical level when you are talking about session IDs, users IDs, or client addresses. It's still really tricky and we're always afraid the rug will be pulled out from under us. And even the most expensive lawyers will be experts in the law but need constant hand-holding through even the most basic technology.

(Data removal requests are another story - if people only knew, man)

The lesson I have learned:

- Anyone who says GDPR is simple has no real experience

- Do exactly what other companies are doing - do not try to stand out

- The only real winners were the lawyers

Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#150

Post by saiya-jin »

mmazzarolo wrote: post #46
Heliosmaster wrote: post #26

I think most of the comments here right now are missing the point of OP's post. It's not about one thing in particular (cookie consent), just that the whole ordeal is full of ads and popups (one of which is the cookie consent popup). Most of this crap is the same everywhere, not just in the EU.

Thanks, that was my intention (back when I posted it). I added "from EU" just to make it clear—since people would have otherwise said "that's not how it works in the US :p"

Yeah hat EU remark unleashed some emotions a bit, people are (incorrectly) bashing EU for consent popup due to companies tracking (and monetizing) the hell out of their browsing habits
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