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When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

calnewport.com

141–150 of 155 posts

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't go in to detail because NDA. Three letter agencies, something something war, trading, cyberattacks and more stuff.

Sounds like they are willing to pay a lot for my weekend.

It does pay well if you do decide to work weekends. I don't however.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#142

It’s really time for office workers to unionize to demand basic rights like: - Ability to disconnect after work - Explicit pay for any after hours work (no more salary workers being forced to work 24/7) - Limits to hours worked per week - Meal breaks (no being forced to eat lunch while on videoconference ) - Safe work environments with minimum distance between workers and air flow / filtering requirements

A lot of this is standard EU worker's rights.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing the amount of people that answer late night chats from people in other timezones upsets me. What upsets me more are the people on vacation answering chats as soon as they’re pinged. That behavior changes work culture and expectations the more it happens. Bad managers love this sort of thing. I learned a long time ago that to keep my sanity I need a wall up between work hours and my personal life.

Its not always that easy. Enterprise just doesn't work that way. Where multiple timezones come in to play you need to be around. If I need email comms for an important document regarding to something super tight. I can't just wait till tomorrow. Information can be crucial at times and emails can cause break down in communications. Spreadsheets need to be spread and PowerPoints need to be pointed. Work yes, you can st…

If it's that important and you've left it until the night before, you have failed to do your own job properly through inadequate prior planning.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#144
post #18
post #7

In the 1990s, even as a software developer, I never answered emails after working hours. Why? Because we didn’t have access to the office mail server outside the office. It was physically impossible to work from home. Add to this the fact that I didn’t have a cell phone or a pager, so when I left the office, nobody could get in touch with me even if they wanted to. On reflection, the separation of home and work was s…

There's a flip side to that though. It also meant that, when I was "in the office," I pretty much needed to be IN THE OFFICE. I couldn't really disappear during the workday on a regular workday by going for a walk or being available at home for this that or the other thing without making specific arrangements. I had the flexibility to do that from time to time but it wasn't a casual I'll be in my home office while th…

I agree. I feel a lot more OK to take time to run errands or grab lunch offsite because I know if someone needs me, I can just answer on Slack. Similarly, I can work from a coffee shop or other location and know that they can reach me if needed.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#145
post #55

So as someone who has worked as a developer for 15+ years now, this is an honest question. What kind of things are you getting emails about after hours that can’t wait until tomorrow? I have heard these horror stories for years but never experienced any of it. Everyone who would be sending me email wants to be off work as much as I do. They’re not working after hours so neither am I. Even when I worked for an agency…

Enterprise works different hours. If I need to relay something important and where email could cause broken communication, I need to work after hours. East Coast in five hours behind of me. West Coast is eight. If we have the regulators chasing us upon an urgent thing you need to be have the information ready for the next day. Unfortunately the whole "don't email after work" can only be applied to roles where staff a…

Have you considered the possibility that you don't in fact need it tomorrow? Like maybe if someone is bothering you for something that you need tomorrow, maybe you fucked up somewhere and you should pay the penalty for it instead of expecting a coworker to reply to a message while they not working.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children seem like a liability in almost every aspect. I'm honestly a bit surprised when anyone mentions they have/want them, and I'm not even a type A/career climber, who I would think would see them as even more of a liability.

They're amazing. They're a lot of work, and a lot of that work is at odd hours ("3am: dad I'm scared of the wind also I accidentally peed on the floor") and/or highly frustrating ("me: son, please stop leaning out that window. son, balancing precariously halfway out his playhouse window: why. me: because if you fall out of it, it will hurt. 2 mins later: falls out of window and it hurts.") (also - feeding kids of any…

It is really hard work and it takes a certain maturity and disposition for selflessness to be good at it.

I think it's easier to be selfless about it if you don't have any ambition outside of your typical 9 to 5 career. For a lot of people genetic propagation is the summit of their existence, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#147
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are a 2nd-year CS student.* You have never worked as an engineer. You do not understand what the real world is like. Please stop waxing about shit you don't know a la /r/cscareerquestions. * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36344172

They may be 2nd year CS student but the world they experience is not any less real than ours who have been in the industry for 10-20 years. You may disagree with them and that's fine. There is a sort of generation gap obviously and our opinions would differ from theirs. That's fine too. But what is really unacceptable to me is how you dismiss their viewpoint because they are a 2nd-year CS student! What if they were n…

It's not an ad hominem attack, a second year CS student is highly unlikely to carry the experience of years working in the industry in order to be able to answer this question with any degree of reliability. Calling them out on this is spot on, and I'm getting really tired of people attempting to deflect or whinge about toxicity because an certain argument doesn't sit well with them.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#148
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They may be 2nd year CS student but the world they experience is not any less real than ours who have been in the industry for 10-20 years. You may disagree with them and that's fine. There is a sort of generation gap obviously and our opinions would differ from theirs. That's fine too. But what is really unacceptable to me is how you dismiss their viewpoint because they are a 2nd-year CS student! What if they were n…

It's not an ad hominem attack, a second year CS student is highly unlikely to carry the experience of years working in the industry in order to be able to answer this question with any degree of reliability. Calling them out on this is spot on , and I'm getting really tired of people attempting to deflect or whinge about toxicity because an certain argument doesn't sit well with them.

> It's not an ad hominem attack, a second year CS student is highly unlikely to carry the experience of years working in the industry in order to be able to answer this question with any degree of reliability.

You are literally providing an example of ad hominem attack and yet you are claiming that it is not ad hominem?

Their argument is wrong of course. So you and me are in agreement there. And their argument is wrong on its own merits. That they are a second year CS student is besides the point. Their argument would be very much wrong even if they were a 20 year experienced professional.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#149
In some fields, if you choose to not allow work to follow you home, you have to be at peace with not having certain opportunities. That horse is already out of the barn. My wife is an academic; and there are two parallel careers going on with her. First, the work of the day. Then there’s “homework” - Zoom committee meetings, reviewing papers as journal editor, constant, year-round. Possibly Cal Newport has discovered something that most of the academy has not. But much of academic work and politics of the academy goes on after hours. I’d imagine other fields are similar.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Add in parental responsibilities Out of curiosity, how many of your coworkers have kids? I have 3, and I've always found it a bit ominous that even when I'm on large teams (8+) I'm typically still the only person with kids. So far: 1. job 1, team of 8, only 1 other IC had kids 2. job 2, team of 10, nobody else had kids 3. current job, team of 8, nobody else has kids. If you expand it to the suborganization we're in,…

Do you really have 2-3 hours after kid bedtime? By the time my kids are asleep, it's already late and have no left time to do anything more than going to sleep myself

It varies a lot - sometimes the kids are in bed by 8 and I stay up till 11. Sometimes they're not in bed till 9 and I stay up till 12 and regret it the next day. I suspect as my kids get older (they're 4.5, 2.9, and 0.8 years old atm) that will shift later and later as they converge towards more 8-9 hours of sleep per night. I'm already starting to see it with the 4.5-year-old who will often stay up until 10ish playing in his room. Probably going to need to start allowing him a later bedtime.
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